ma.stars and BlueTurbit, sorry for confusing you.

I was not going to play (mostly due to pretty busy RL schedule, but also due to unreadyness of MM reducing tools as well as x files checking tool (so far it's ready for about 40%)). So, if you need to merge your Stars! files (I'd suggest m files merging since it gives you the best results, but h files merging still can be usefull) - you are welcome. Also if you need to add some special settings into your game (let's say 1000000 ultra diggers for AR from the begining ) - you are also welcome. But as of playing and/or replacing someone ... sorry I'm quit.

The only thing I'm asking is a possibility to be observer (I'll just... just need to be included into all turns mailing list, and I do NOT need to know you game and D/L passwords). That would give me additional data to analyse/test in my work on Stars! tools like mergers/verifyers/etc (and btw it will simplify merging tasks). All of this is possible only if you don't mind. But if one you do mind, no problem - just forget it.

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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 06:40

Mac1 wrote on Sat, 25 June 2011 20:47 Hmm i just found out i will be going for vacation first 2 weeks of july. When do you expect to start this game ? If its going to start really soon, then i'll have to pass. Do we have a solution for this? Either delay the start of the game a bit, or find a replacement?

Hah, thought noone ever saw my post
Anyway I'm back early, so i'm ready to play.
Would be nice to make 1 post with all the rules, when dicsussion is over, atm. i have no idea what this game is and what race to create.

btw. i hope it won't ne huge...

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Ok, If everyone can send their race files and passwords for those files to AlexTheGreat we can get it started. There's a lot of players but hopefully we will have everything sent to Alex within the week.

@AlexTheGreat If it's possible, can you gen till we have at least 40conc on each HW of each mineral? Dunno if this is gonna take too much time? But it would help us ARs and I'm sure the terrestrial races wouldn't mind

About the placing, I'm not sure how far each team should be from the other team or how far they should be from team mates. Let's say they should be twice as far away from the other team as they are from each other. So for example 150ly from each other and 300ly from other team (each player) ITs and PPs can have the distance taken from the middle of the line drawn between their 2 worlds as the center point.

Post if you don't have your teamies email but I think the AH PM system should work fine too

@XyliGUN You are more than welcome to be an observer! I'll add you to the email list if I can.

I'll ask for a private Thread as well so we can discuss stuff there if need be

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ForceUser wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 09:51

Ok, If everyone can send their race files and passwords for those files to AlexTheGreat we can get it started.

You mean passworded race files, or passworded race files and passwords?

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m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 14:18

ForceUser wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 09:51 Ok, If everyone can send their race files and passwords for those files to AlexTheGreat we can get it started. You mean passworded race files, or passworded race files and passwords?

haha lol yes, you dont need passwords of the file to set up the game but yes, the races must be passworded.

No harm though since he's not going to play

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Mac1 wrote on Sun, 03 July 2011 23:29

Anyway I'm back early, so i'm ready to play.

Good!

Quote:

Would be nice to make 1 post with all the rules, when dicsussion is over, atm. i have no idea what this game is and what race to create.

Team game, teams of 2, in a Large/dense (around 50 planets per player).

As for the general rules and allowed tricks/cheats, please read carefully the initial game post, particularly where it says "If a player is found to use a cheat he will be set as dead for 5 turns. If a player found to badly abuse something like kill starbase order on many planets at once he will be kicked out of the game." If that is not clear enough for anyone, please ask for clarification now, don't wait until the game is half-way.

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ForceUser wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 14:21

you dont need passwords of the file to set up the game

Actually, someone should check the racefiles just in case anyone forgot that CAs are not allowed. Or perhaps they should be allowed but with a point penalty?

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[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 14:25] Quote: Would be nice to make 1 post with all the rules, when dicsussion is over, atm. i have no idea what this game is and what race to create. Team game, teams of 2, in a Large/dense (around 50 planets per player). As for the general rules and allowed tricks/cheats, please read carefully the initial game post, particularly where it says "If a player is found to use a cheat he will be set as dead for 5 turns. If a player found to badly abuse something like kill starbase order on many planets at once he will be kicked out of the game." If that is not clear enough for anyone, please ask for clarification now, don't wait until the game is half-way.

Not sure what more to add to the initial page It's a team game where you can coordinate your race with your teammate. Your team mate is shown by the (#) on the first page.

The original idea was for an AR friendly game but by no means do you have to have on on your team. The space is large-ish so +f races will do good but you can do some early aggression easily too. No CA allowed though.

[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 14:29] ForceUser wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 14:21 you dont need passwords of the file to set up the game Actually, someone should check the racefiles just in case anyone forgot that CAs are not allowed. Or perhaps they should be allowed but with a point penalty?

Good idea that, and if Alex don't mind then that might be a good idea. Although it's very easy to see once the game is genned to see if anyone has OBs in orbit. It's possible someone might use a password they use for other things. Although that's a no-no anyways since someone might drop. I think then it's a good idea to have a backup list of passwords in case some is gone completely and we cant get the password. No I don't think CAs even with a point penalty is a good idea. In a team game they are pretty powerful and can boost a teammate too much.

[Updated on: Mon, 04 July 2011 08:38]

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Quote:

I think then it's a good idea to have a backup list of passwords in case some is gone completely and we cant get the password.

I don't recall the exact details. Ron has done that for me in one game long ago where my password didn't work after game start. But I don't remember if he was given the tool to do that, or if he had Jeff do it. I remember I was told to keep it simple, because mine was very complex and long at the time. It caused some sort of issue with Stars because of the length.
Maybe Ron can refresh us on possible password issues.

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Quote:

I think then it's a good idea to have a backup list of passwords in case some is gone completely and we cant get the password.

BlueTurbit wrote

I don't recall the exact details. Ron has done that for me in one game long ago where my password didn't work after game start. But I don't remember if he was given the tool to do that, or if he had Jeff do it. I remember I was told to keep it simple, because mine was very complex and long at the time. It caused some sort of issue with Stars because of the length. Maybe Ron can refresh us on possible password issues.

I guess I can handle this, so if you need to reset/change turn password just let me know. This can be done without knowledge of the previous one (the same tool was given to Ron some time ago, so he can do it also).

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ForceUser wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 14:36

I think then it's a good idea to have a backup list of passwords in case some is gone completely and we cant get the password.

Alternatively, both Teammates of the same Team could/should have the same password.

Which reminds me, if someone has to (hastily) draft a turn for an absent Teammate, they need to be careful not to trigger the "Emperor Bug" a.k.a "Copy Protection", or the whole game might need to be regenned from backup.

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ForceUser wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 08:51

Ok, If everyone can send their race files and passwords for those files to AlexTheGreat we can get it started. There's a lot of players but hopefully we will have everything sent to Alex within the week. @AlexTheGreat If it's possible, can you gen till we have at least 40conc on each HW of each mineral? Dunno if this is gonna take too much time? But it would help us ARs and I'm sure the terrestrial races wouldn't mind About the placing, I'm not sure how far each team should be from the other team or how far they should be from team mates. Let's say they should be twice as far away from the other team as they are from each other. So for example 150ly from each other and 300ly from other team (each player) ITs and PPs can have the distance taken from the middle of the line drawn between their 2 worlds as the center point.

Not sure if that is a serious request or not, but you can't just introduce a factor like min concs of 40 at this stage !

12 players in large, all HW would normally be over 300 l.y. apart (with the furthest setting).
So all that is really needed is to move team mates so they are next to each other, and possibly closer together.
Depending on how that works you could also ensure that each team has rough access to a similar amount of space (i.e. they are not all shifted into the top 2/3 of the map).

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mazda wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 00:02

Not sure if that is a serious request or not, but you can't just introduce a factor like min concs of 40 at this stage !

Why not? It's been done in many games before, and 40 is just a bit better than the minimal HW concs anyway.

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 06 July 2011 16:46

mazda wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 00:02 Not sure if that is a serious request or not, but you can't just introduce a factor like min concs of 40 at this stage ! Why not? It's been done in many games before, and 40 is just a bit better than the minimal HW concs anyway.

Which begs the question, does it even matter if it's 30 or 40?

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Void wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 10:42

[email m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Wed, 06 July 2011 16:46] mazda wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 00:02 Not sure if that is a serious request or not, but you can't just introduce a factor like min concs of 40 at this stage ! Why not? It's been done in many games before, and 40 is just a bit better than the minimal HW concs anyway. Which begs the question, does it even matter if it's 30 or 40?

It matters to a HP race. If you know the starting concentrations will be more favourable you don't have to invest RW points in min. conc. for the extra g you need.

Personally, I don't care either way, its easy enough to adjust a race to account for it. Having said that, at this late stage, we could ask why that condition has been imposed seemingly out of the blue. If I were being cynical, I know what I'd do with the implied information if I landed next door to a particular race.

Now having said that, the most likely explanation, is that it prevents an AR from having a an Ir or G crunch - which since this is supposed to be an AR friendly game makes perfect sense and helps the rest of us with an easier start too.

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[Updated on: Wed, 06 July 2011 21:43]

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Void wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 02:42

Which begs the question, does it even matter if it's 30 or 40?

For my own race design, not much.

Other races, however, might welcome the slightly better performance.

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goober wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 04:10

it may be the case you get better surface minerals with better min conc.

That tends to happen, too.

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goober wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 03:31

If I were being cynical, I know what I'd do with the implied information if I landed next door to a particular race.

... and you might find yourself unpleasantly surprised.

Quote:

it prevents an AR from having a an Ir or G crunch - which since this is supposed to be an AR friendly game makes perfect sense and helps the rest of us with an easier start too.

Better minconcs don't eliminate an early "mineral crunch", but help make it less severe. For everybody.

Too many players neglect to testbed with bad minconcs, and their races might become uncompetitive. It costs little to have everybody set for a slightly better start, and ensuring 40% minimum minconcs should be easier than ensuring 60% when creating the game.

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goober wrote on Wed, 06 July 2011 19:10

Regardless, these things add up over time.

Can't argue with you there.

What makes 40 so special, though? Why not 45 or 50? Not trying to be contrary (my wife tells me it's a gift), just curious...

Cheers,
Void

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Void wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 12:56

goober wrote on Wed, 06 July 2011 19:10 Regardless, these things add up over time. Can't argue with you there. What makes 40 so special, though? Why not 45 or 50? Not trying to be contrary (my wife tells me it's a gift), just curious... Cheers, Void

I'd guess its just easier to generate a universe where the min concs are 40+ rather than 50+. Just a question of probabilities.

But then, the very first universe created could give HW's with all the concs >80. Who knows.

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Void wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 04:56

What makes 40 so special, though? Why not 45 or 50? Not trying to be contrary (my wife tells me it's a gift), just curious...

A guaranteed minconc of 50% might prompt some players to redesign their races to take advantage of it...

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goober wrote on Thu, 07 July 2011 05:30

But then, the very first universe created could give HW's with all the concs >80. Who knows.

Yup. That happened in my 1st testbed for this game. Only halfway thru it did I notice the absence of any kind of mineral crunch and the excellent growth I was getting.

Testing with all 30% now...

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