magic9mushroom wrote on Tue, 28 June 2011 14:49

Only true Warp-9-capable ships will be able to physically reach players other than your immediate neighbours, and then not at top speed the whole way. For a Galaxy Scoop ship to cross the universe from one side to the other will take over 15 turns. For the final war to finish, given a blitzkrieg-like front movement rate of 20 ly/turn across the entire front (that's 5-6 planets a turn, I haven't seen many wars quicker), would take a colossal 40 turns. Such a game will likely take 200 turns to finish, at the very least - that's a year and three months even at 3 turns per week.

The way you say it, you almost make it look as if those were all bad things!?

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 29 June 2011 11:36

The way you say it, you almost make it look as if those were all bad things!?

Indeed, Turb did not grasp that I was wishing everyone a good game.

(But one in which I shall most assuredly not be participating.)

It can be good to be crazy!

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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 29 June 2011 03:33

Indeed, Turb did not grasp that I was wishing everyone a good game. (But one in which I shall most assuredly not be participating.) It can be good to be crazy!

Now what do you suppose would give me that idea?

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You're all nuts, the lot of you. I am most definitely NOT joining this game... And the best advantage of such an epic game is the epic diplomacy and backstabbing, which is negated by it being a team game. ...once we realised how ridiculous the whole thing was. ...For a Galaxy Scoop ship to cross the universe from one side to the other will take over 15 turns. ...- that's a year and three months even at 3 turns per week.

And the giant Bonne chance!

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Good luck: The literal translation of this phrase is 'bonne chance'. However, it is considered to bring bad luck if one actually says it! To wish someone good luck in French, one says 'Merde!' ...!

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One of my friends told me that saying "Good Luck" in French was sometimes rude.

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It isn't "rude" but for some people (I'm not superstitious but I never say "good luck"), they think it brings bad luck.

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not rude, but a double entendre: (même chose avec : bon courage !) - I wish you good luck - no chance, or it's impossible It all depends on how it is said. (or written)

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I agree with FrançoisXV. The same can be said for English. It can be used sarcastically, which can be taken as rude.

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Like DearPrudence, I have a French friend who always says in perfect sincerity that he prefers bon courage over bonne chance because it implies personal control instead of dumb luck

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I've been living in France for over 30 yeats now. There is a member of my choir who regularly signs off with "bonne chance", and I find this can be a wee bit offensive. It's as if "you'll need it, you're not much good". You might find this suprising but "bonne chance" has a slightly sarcastic connotation in French...

I rest my case.

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Oi! take it outside please. If you guys want to debate the meaning of Bonne chance or debate the insanity of this game, make a thread. Don't make me ask to lock this thread, we can just as well do the rest of the setup by mail

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This is Allies and Empires, not Storm in a Teapot.

Luck will be a factor in our Epic anyway. Hopefully not the deciding factor, but part of the fun factor.

That said, if anyone needs general advice about micromanagement, I'm sure there'll be many people willing to help.

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 29 June 2011 10:04

This is Allies and Empires, not Storm in a Teapot.

Nor French Toast, as someone suggests.

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That said, if anyone needs general advice about micromanagement, I'm sure there'll be many people willing to help.

Please be sure to let us know if you have too many planets to manage. We will try to help out as best we can.

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When my son first called me about the change in density, I was really concerned that it would change things too drastically for my design plans. But I found that it did not make as big a difference as I thought. Large/Dense seems like the best way to add a 6th team.

FYI - While I haven't played in over 10 yrs now. I think my longest game took just a little less than 2 yrs. I remember most fondly the team games I played in. 3x3 medium. 3x5 Large and a 4x4 Huge. Mainly learned that while you seem to have time for more games when you start, having too many in end game stage is just impossible. I found that I prefered 2-3 turns per week best, but not until the late game. Mentioning all this, just to say, I know what we are getting into! LOL

We'll work on putting end-game time into this next week or so, to hopefully put together something that will give you all some entertainment while we learn our lessons

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From the starting post it would seem that while it is clear that only one Team can win, and all other Teams must be set to Enemy, not all forms of cooperation are banned.

I'd say that opens interesting possibilities like ganging up against the strongest Team(s), gossip, deception, "kill-you-last" agreements, and such. Not all of these would be bad, IMHO.

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 29 June 2011 17:35

I'd say that opens interesting possibilities like ganging up against the strongest Team(s), gossip, deception, "kill-you-last" agreements, and such. Not all of these would be bad, IMHO.

Not saying they would be bad. Just saying that they increase the time commitment when playing the game. And that the degree of cooperation allowed needs to be clarified so we are all playing with the same understanding.

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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 07:35

From the starting post it would seem that while it is clear that only one Team can win, and all other Teams must be set to Enemy, not all forms of cooperation are banned. I'd say that opens interesting possibilities like ganging up against the strongest Team(s), gossip, deception, "kill-you-last" agreements, and such. Not all of these would be bad, IMHO.

It isn't necessary to communicate directly to reach such accords.

If you have good scanning and you are keeping track, you can work out who is strongest and start attacking them while they attack someone else.

Others seeing this may then join in to get some of the spoils. If everyone makes a point of not attacking a planet someone else is obviously on their way to ... then another clear message is being sent.

Simply setting up a definite border with minefields that you know is reasonably equitable and then not sending warships further can send an important message.

You can't rely on such unspoken accords ofc, and it always behooves you to be vigilant, but you can still accomplish alot just by being watchful and careful in your dealings with others you don't want to be at war with ... yet.

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Hmm I like all of these ideas. Unfortunately many of them are uncheckable, difficult to determine, etc. and will rely on people's honor

- Set everyone to Enemy & Battle orders must be set to attack enemy: This is important and makes it so that it's impossible to attack the same world by two people without them killing each other too. There isn't a rule about not attack the same world by more than one team but I can't see why you'd want to

- No Coordination of attacks: You are not allowed to mail/message to coordinate attacks. If you have good scanning and see other teams fighting theres nothing against fighting the same team for whatever reason. There is a form of coordinating that has a token from an uninvolved race in a battle to change how the tokens are arranged on the battle board. Obviously there can be up to 4 races in any one battle but "accidentally" having a scout arrive at a battle to change the layout and give one side a clear advantage is a no-no.

- You are not allowed to message "selected" people: If you want to send an in-game message or mail, everyone needs to receive it. This is obviously not easily checkable but if a race receives one they can easily report it (snitches yey!) If you want to determine borders you can publicly decree your border and the other team can publicly deny it Will make for some entertaining stuff.

I like the idea that all teams are so different that the cannot "communicate" with each other privately but only "publicly" by an ancient array/broadcast system that they all can detect/hear.

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ForceUser wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 10:12

- No Coordination of attacks: You are not allowed to mail/message to coordinate attacks. If you have good scanning and see other teams fighting theres nothing against fighting the same team for whatever reason.

I'd say that's the most important.

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- You are not allowed to message "selected" people: If you want to send an in-game message or mail, everyone needs to receive it. This is obviously not easily checkable but if a race receives one they can easily report it (snitches yey!) If you want to determine borders you can publicly decree your border and the other team can publicly deny it Will make for some entertaining stuff.

Good! Propaganda wars!!

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craebild wrote

XyliGUN can do it much faster, and can do a lot more about player capabilities, too.

ma.stars wrote

Perhaps we should contact the magician, then.

AlexTheGreat wrote

I can do the remapping if you like.

I've been away for a while and seems like I missed an epic game being started.
Alex if you need any help just let me know.

Any chance to be observer (under NDA of cause) for this game?

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XyliGUN wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 14:05

Any chance to be observer (under NDA of cause) for this game?

Perhaps we'll want to use one of your data-merging tools.

You can also join the "reserve" queue, in case some player needs a respite from so much epicness.

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[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 18:34] You can also join the "reserve" queue, in case some player needs a respite from so much epicness.

Have you gone mad? Do you know what he can do with respect to extracting information from, altering and merging files?
If I recall what he said, he doesn't even need passwords.
Only if he takes a polygraph every couple turns.

For setting up game files: outstanding skills.
But for playing against others: an extremely high degree of trust would be necessary for all competing players.
Trust? What's trust? Does Micha ring a bell?

[Updated on: Fri, 01 July 2011 19:51]

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BlueTurbit wrote on Sat, 02 July 2011 01:46

Do you know what he can do with respect to extracting information from, altering and merging files? If I recall what he said, he doesn't even need passwords.

He would need the SAH D/L password, wouldn't he?

He shouldn't play a CA, tho.

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I don't know. Would he? Could he?
What do you need to merge h files?
Do you invite a master magician to your poker table if you want to win?

[Updated on: Fri, 01 July 2011 21:15]

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BlueTurbit wrote on Sat, 02 July 2011 03:12

I don't know. Would he? Could he?

Ask Ron why the D/L pwds exist in the 1st place.

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What do you need to merge h files?

The web-based SAH-merger tool!

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Do you invite a master magician to your poker table if you want to win?

This isn't poker. Anyone caught with an extra Pawn risks being destined to quality-testing Heavy Blasters... as the target.

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This isn't poker. Anyone caught with an extra Pawn...

XyliGUN potentially has extra pawns and queens in his arsenal that most players likely don't have.

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In general there are two type of possible cheating with Stars! files: 1. Getting normally invisible info from your own m file Example (it was discussed already on the forum) is knowledge on what Mystery Trader would give to you if you catch him. Once MT entered known space your m file contains exactly knowledge on that, but Stars! never shows it to you. This is just an example, but there is much more sensitive info about the universe, which some players have in their m files, that is never shown by Stars.

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2. Getting advantages of game bugs (using an x file to perform actions that would be impossible to do normally) ... Technically speaking there are just 23 possible actions in x file (for example: load/unload, change design, change production queue, change waypoints and so on). And about 17 of them could be destructive (could be used by cheater to get unfair advantage).

http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=467 6&rid=&S=307b4dab2c2ec9853ddc55bdd112a4fc&pl_vie w=&start=0#msg_48103

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BlueTurbit wrote on Sat, 02 July 2011 17:30

Quote: This isn't poker. Anyone caught with an extra Pawn... XyliGUN potentially has extra pawns and queens in his arsenal that most players likely don't have.

And he could be caught if he used them, same as everyone else.

Things would greatly improve if he spent his time creating the anti-cheating x- and m-files sanitizers, instead of playing, though.

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XyliGUN wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 08:05

craebild wrote XyliGUN can do it much faster, and can do a lot more about player capabilities, too. ma.stars wrote Perhaps we should contact the magician, then. AlexTheGreat wrote I can do the remapping if you like. I've been away for a while and seems like I missed an epic game being started. Alex if you need any help just let me know. Any chance to be observer (under NDA of cause) for this game?

Thanks mate. It seems that you have some powers that I lack but remapping a universe is second nature to me.

I have been a bit busy too so hopefully I haven't missed anything where I should have responded.

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