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[Updated on: Mon, 17 January 2011 09:34]

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Here is my initial piece of advice: forget SS. Even experienced players shun upon playing SS because their PRT cost way too much points.

JoaT or IT are very good choices for a beginner. The JoaT give you benefits that you can abuse since the start of the game (and many JoaT players love to pick NAS (No Advanced Scanners) since their first few hulls have built in scanners so it doesn't really hurt them) while IT allow you to build an empire without the heavy burden of MM (micro management) since you can gate both ships and cargo basically at will. This include colons, something no other race can do!

If you have problems with MM then definitely consider playing IT. Not only it will help you tons but IT players make good general allies because when another race is set to friend then they can use your improved gates. This work especially well if you end up allying with a race which don't have access to gates like HE, or a race that have hull advantage but cannot gate their ships safely like WM.

I could give you more precise advise but not only it is not a good idea to post publicly your race... I'm also probably going to play that same game too.

Good luck.

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Celebrinbor1 wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 06:03

Tech is all 75% starting at Level 3 except Electronics Normal.

That works against the AIs, but you'll have a hard time against humans unless you find a way to speedup your Const and/or Weaps Research, or plan to rely on trade or pillage.

Go to the "Must Know" Forum and read the post titled "Tutorial - How to get over 25k resources by 2450 (BEGINNER)"

Playtest what it says, learn it by heart, and when you manage something close to that level of performance you'll be all ready to tweak your own race, rinse, and repeat.

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Hi!

I have a bit of time and am in a dissection mood, so let me pick your race apart :

Quote:

SS LRTs - IFE, NRSE, OBRM, NAS

So far so good.

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Hab - Grav = 0.31g - 3.210g Temp = -124C - 124C Rad = 59mR - 99mR

You're losing a half of rad terra here. It isn't really much, but in the game that could make around 3 yellow planets less.

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Growth 17% 1 in 5 hab range

A bit low growth for that kind of hab.

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Pop resources 1/1000 Factories - 14/9/18 Mines - 10/3/18

Somewhat unusual factories. I'd rather go 12/9/16. Significantly less RW points spent for that.

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Tech is all 75% starting at Level 3 except Electronics Normal.

Suicide.
Consider this: for the same tech one player has cheap, he will research it for 100 resources, but you with expensive tech will need to invest 350 resources. You'll be fighting wars with your pointed sticks, while your opponents will be using rifles. When you'll get rifles, they'll be already using tanks and jet-bombers. And you'll never get tanks, because you'll be eliminated from the game by those tanks and jet-bombers.

The rule of thumb for virtually any game is "weapons mandatory cheap, rest whatever one can afford". If you'll have strong econ, you could compensate for other expensive techs, since early warfaring techs aren't so expensive to get. But your race doesn't have neither good econ nor cheap techs. In a beginner game you could get away with it, but I wouldn't give you lots of chances.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Fri, 21 January 2011 04:47]

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Would any of the gurus here try and dissect my suggestion here?

The Guild / Guildmen
SS
IFE, NRSE, ARM, NAS
G 0,33 t o4,40
T -72C to 136C
R 32mR to 84mR
PGR 16%, Hab 1 in 5 initially
Res 1/1100
Factories 15/8/17,G checked
Mines 5/15/5 (worst)
Weap/Con/Elec cheap, rest expensive and start at 3.
0 leftover.

This is basically an attempt to create a very HP-ish SS race out there (a fully settled 100% planet gives 3459 res in total). Minerals would be acquired by remote mining and theft.

Celebrinbor1, if you feel like it, why not test this one? My bro has recently set it up against my AR and 14 tough AIs and... well... it was fun

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loucipher wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 14:25

Mines 5/15/5 (worst) Minerals would be acquired by remote mining and theft.

Critique, short version:



Long version:

Without an immediate, cost-effective source of minerals, you won't be able to build any factories or mining ships to get more minerals, to say nothing of the actual transports and warships you'll need in droves too. This race would be dead on arrival.

Go for something like 11/3/16 mines - tone down the factories and up the growth for a HG, or bring the population efficiency to 1/2500 for HP to pay for useable mine settings. This should get you enough minerals to get started so you can actually put ARM to use. However... since you shouldn't be relying on remote mining too heavily, and aren't AR, you would probably do better to dump ARM and use the normal miners.

If you're used to playing the AI, you can learn some bad habits due to never having to face a real military threat or aggressive expansionism. That's probably a big factor here. Playing against people with a couple MP games under their belt will give you a new perspective.

[Updated on: Sun, 23 January 2011 19:25]

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Quote:

What is a set of logical goals to make this race multiplayer worthy?

To think like a player instead of relying on the computer AIs to get a grasp of the power of a race.

For example, if you wait until you can have penetrating scanners before you create scouts en masse then you can bet that someone else who don't prioritize electronics early on will find your scouts very, very appealing. If I was in such a situation, I'd made sure to create enough interceptors to be sure to catch and destroy them all so I can get a good chance at grabbing free tech. That would also mean that I would deny you good intelligence in my sector. Win/win scenario for me.

Another point to consider is that good heavy production races usually compare themselves by the amount of resources they can produce by 2450... And not early 3000. I think the median is 50k by 2450.

Third, the AI computers really suck in many fields. One of them is interception of your own fleet and the way they colonize. Make sure not to expect stupid behavior like this from human players... Human players tend to be way more ruthless than AIs!

Fourth, Generalized Research is clearly one of the worst SRT to pick when playing against humans. The standard for human games is to get CON and WEP cheap and race those two fields up ASAP to get a big advantage on your opponents. The logic of Generalized Research is still there: you will in total be more efficient in the average of all your fields... But that also mean that any other player who picked CON and WEP cheap and everything else expensive will have battleships with weapons almost twice the power of yours knocking at your door by the time you begin to toy with cruisers. And probably Nubians by the time you are beginning to be comfortable with battleships. This is a lose/lose scenario since nothing else than ships of your own will be able to save you from that... And you won't stand a chance with what you got at that time.

There is probably a lot more to say... But let's say I'll begin with only that for now.

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Hi!

Celebrinbor1 wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 05:28

...Generalized Research

This is a very special trait. In short games it prevents you to get to needed techs fast. In long games its benfits are wasted on all tech-26 fields. It comes handy only in quite special circumstances, like games with several 10 forced-gen turns.

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Gravity: 1.00-8.00 Temp: -24-200 Rad: 66-100

Silly hab. You're losing all terra on the right side. As a rule of thumb you set all habs at least 15 "clicks" from the edge, and grav and temp more than 15, because first and last 10 "clicks" there are less likely to be generated.

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15/8/12 factories cost 1kt less is checked

Way too efficient factories for the number you can operate. This settings would be good for a QuickStart race, that intends to go on rampage very eary. Also, for 12 factories operated is the "cost 3 germ checked" only marginally usefull.

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10/5/10

Mines cost 3, period. Only when you'll really know what you're doing, you may change that number.

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...I then build about 10-12 scouts with the warp 4 engan and two chameleon scanners and have them explore the galixy.

... or just give your neighbours, that will be shooting down those scouts, some free levels in elec.

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My plan is that in a multiplayer game, this will give me an advantage because I can sell this info to other players.

You know, most players are intersted only in planets, close to them, and will not pay for the info on planets 500 LY far. And close planets they can scout for themself. A better bet for trade would be those pen-scanning scouts of yours.

I'd suggest you for a start to try a fairly simple HG design with decent econ and speed, that will live by trading tech, pen scanners and SS toys, and will also allow some intersettling if needed:

SS
IFE, NRSE, OBRM, RS (no NAS, it gives only 25 points)
grav 0.31 to 3.20
temp -120 to 120
rad 16 to 46 (1-in-7, with terra-11 in all 3 fields 1-in-2)
PGR 18%
factories 12/9/13/4
mines 10/3/14 (1 more mine to compensate a bit for 4g/factory)
weap and con cheap,
en and elec normal,
prop and bio expensive
15 remaining points to mineral concentrations.

I'd suggest you to testbed it with at least one AI, so you'll see the impact of the SS tech-steal bonus, then change some settings a bit (~50 RW points changes) and testbed some more, so you get the feeling for race behaviour. It would be good to test in the same universe, so you'd eliminate the impact of random planet draw.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Wed, 09 February 2011 06:56]

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Eagle of Fire wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 05:05

Another point to consider is that good heavy production races usually compare themselves by the amount of resources they can produce by 2450... And not early 3000. I think the median is 50k by 2450.

Well, the game has already started, so I'm guessing your advise will go in making his race for the next game.

I did want to ask.. 50k by 2450?????? In a tiny, packed universe?
Just asking because I could get to only 30-35k

Even if it's a pure HP race, won't that mean a really slow start for the beginning 30 years? Seeing this is a tiny packed universe with NINE players, isn't it going to see some action from 2420-25 itself?
This type of pure HP race will have a really tough time, methinks.

Please teach me, oh grand masters, so I can become better.

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Eagle of Fire wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 04:05

If I was in such a situation, I'd made sure to create enough interceptors to be sure to catch and destroy them all so I can get a good chance at grabbing free tech. That would also mean that I would deny you good intelligence in my sector. Win/win scenario for me.

Better build a lot of them.. with big scanners too. If you want to catch those SS pen scouts and kill them for electronics tech.

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Celebrinbor1 wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 05:28

explore the entire universe (small & packed)

Try larger universes to better test your colonization skills.

Quote:

once I can research to electronics 6 and energy 3 in 1 year, I divert all resources into research. This gives me pen-scanners. I then build about 10-12 scouts with the warp 4 engan and two chameleon scanners and have them explore the galixy.

That might be too late. You should start exploring as soon as you can build cheap scouts with long enough legs and whatever scanners are available.

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Within a few years I have mapped out the entire universe. My plan is that in a multiplayer game, this will give me an advantage because I can sell this info to other players.

Not everybody will want to trade for that kind of info. It will be most valuable for your own diplomatic efforts, such as finding partners, targets, or ways to get your neighbors fighting each other instead of you.

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nmid wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 15:30

50k by 2450?????? In a tiny, packed universe? Just asking because I could get to only 30-35k

The standard yardstick is 25k resources by 2450 as explained in this nice tutorial.

These tests are usually run in small/dense or even medium/normal galaxies, depending on the kind of game you want to simulate.

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Even if it's a pure HP race, won't that mean a really slow start for the beginning 30 years?

Pure HPs tend to start slow. But some races with great resources can start quick.

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Seeing this is a tiny packed universe with NINE players, isn't it going to see some action from 2420-25 itself? This type of pure HP race will have a really tough time, methinks.

Quite likely!

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Eagle of Fire wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 11:05

Generalized Research is clearly one of the worst SRT to pick when playing against humans.

GR is not an LRT, it's a way of life!

Some races and game setups allow for a reasonable benefit from GR, even if it's not a trait for everybody.

GR is neither the bane of good Research nor the handy substitute for a good Research plan that some seem to think.

That is just the kind of thing that you'll better learn by playing real people and not only the AIs.

[Updated on: Wed, 09 February 2011 10:23]

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Eagle of Fire wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 11:05

other player who picked CON and WEP cheap and everything else expensive will have battleships with weapons almost twice the power of yours knocking at your door by the time you begin to toy with cruisers. And probably Nubians by the time you are beginning to be comfortable with battleships.

Don't underestimate the power or lower hulls against bigger but less tech-balanced hulls! Shields, Comps, and even Engines count, and many's the BB that's been killed by a few well-designed CCs, particularly if its debris yielded useful new tech.

Nub fleets can be beaten by BB fleets, even if it's not a proposition for the faint of heart. Nubians aren't the be-all and end-all, particularly if most of their tech isn't as developed as Weaponry.

Been there, done that, got the tech boost.

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