 Host as a Player no more ? |
Sat, 15 January 2011 05:45  |
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Hi ,
maybe we have to change the setup for oure games at SAH at all. After I speak with several "old" players and Ron there could be a cracked/hacked stars.exe around where you could load *.m-Files without having the PW.
So in my meaning then the host should not be longer alowed to be a player at autohost. Not because there is no trust in the host but to prevent a temptation.
Any thoughts ?
ccmaster
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sat, 15 January 2011 08:24  |
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 XyliGUN |
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Messages: 325
Registered: July 2004
Location: Russia, St.Petersburg | 
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Well, I'm not an "old" player, and I don't have cracked/hacked stars.exe, but I do know the structure and encoding/decoding of the stars files, and I have a tools that allows me to read data from your turn file without knowledge of your password (and there are a number of peoples with the same knowledge around), so just for the record: I cannot be a player in the game I host anymore, just to avoid suspicions.
Would such limitation drop a number of games ... I don't think so, since it looks for me that there are more games where host isn't playing, but I could be wrong. 
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For LoveReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sat, 15 January 2011 10:40 |
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I think it's pretty simple - if someone has a problem with the host playing, they can choose to not join games where the host plays. If they have no problem with it, then all's fair. Either way, no change is necessary.
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sat, 15 January 2011 13:58 |
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| iojho wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 16:35 |
There is no many games announced I would be interested in. That is why, to play I announce the games that I am going to host. Otherwise, it would be difficult for me to find a game I like.
iojho
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Hi ,
I know the problem you mean but it would only mean someone else hast to host the game idea you have. You need most time a 3. Party to check racefiles and setup the game.
To host a game is normaly not much work after changing the fist step of PW .
ccmaster
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sat, 15 January 2011 14:01 |
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| Coyote wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 16:40 |
I think it's pretty simple - if someone has a problem with the host playing, they can choose to not join games where the host plays. If they have no problem with it, then all's fair. Either way, no change is necessary.
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Hi ,
it would only prefent discissions about the game when the host has "luck" with fights there will always be someone that dont trust this. Maybe he dont tells this but it would always be in his head.
ccmaster
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sat, 15 January 2011 17:18 |
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Yeah, let people decide for themselves.
Either way... It's pretty easy to find someone to act as a third party host anyway. I've seen plenty of game descriptions that asked for a host as well as for players
After all, if the game rules are straightforward enough that a person could play in their own game, it implies the hosting load would be so small that there are many people on Autohost that would happily help out. This is also helpful with impartiality should any hosting decisions have to be made that directly affect the person that arranged the game.
[Updated on: Sat, 15 January 2011 17:20] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sat, 15 January 2011 23:22 |
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That is a very smart answer. You are quite correct, there will always be a chance for this to happen.
On the other hand... Non playing host at least removes the *casual* temptation to cheat. So it's only equivalent in the case where someone has decided to be deceptive before the game starts. A playing host on the other hand, is exposed to temptation throughout the game.
I don't think it's a huge issue.
Personally I favour games with non playing hosts simply for the relative impartiality should there be any problems during the game, but it's not high on my list of priorities - I have played several which had playing hosts too, because the games looked like they would be interesting (i.e. mlaub's Glacier series.)
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sun, 16 January 2011 09:36 |
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I think we are focussing a bit too much on cheating.
While I am very much in favour of splitting hosting and playing it is mainly for other reasons.
What's a host for?
A playing host can make the announcement and the setup but runs into problems with many other things and a 3rd party is needed then...
Wether it is a race file check or advice, about finding a replacement player (or not) without having the ability to look into the inactive player's game, deciding wether a regen is justified (or not), checking a player's files to make sure he acts according to the game rules...
Whenever a game runs into real trouble, a playing host will run into trouble, too. It is difficult to deny a regen as a playing host if it comes from the enemy side, it is also diffcilut to deny a regen to the own side, the problem of partiality or the accusation of it comes easily... while perhaps the best solution might be no regen at all. So a host is better off with asking a 3rd party.
But when a 3rd party is needed anyway, why not having him as the official host right away?
So, the solution is quite easy, our playing community large enough, don't host the games you are playing in.
And it is still possible that everybody can make an announcement and describing the intended game and not only askig for players but also for a willing host.
An exception are duels who should be played however they come *grin
[Updated on: Sun, 16 January 2011 20:35] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sun, 16 January 2011 15:48 |
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| Ron |
 | Commander
Forum Administrator
Stars! AutoHost Administrator |
Messages: 1231
Registered: October 2002
Location: Collegedale, TN | |
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| Mac1 wrote on Sun, 16 January 2011 15:22 |
Good to know there is a tool allowing to open .m files without password 
In almost every my past game, i had a player uploading his turns few seconds before generation, now i will always have to wonder if he could or not see my turn ?
There was a game i remember, when i thought some1 is doing this (but i didnt know its possible), so i become paranoic and started to upload turn few seconds before generation as well...  i dont want this situation again
Die cheaters !!!
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Such a tool requires access to other players' .m or .x files which is why each player is given a random upload/download password when the game starts.
The game host can find out and change players' upload/download passwords. As can I and ccmaster and, until a few days ago, Micha.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 January 2011 16:12]
Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHostReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Host as a Player no more ? |
Sun, 16 January 2011 20:29 |
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| Mac1 wrote on Sun, 16 January 2011 21:22 |
There was a game i remember, when i thought some1 is doing this (but i didnt know its possible), so i become paranoic and started to upload turn few seconds before generation as well... i dont want this situation again
Die cheaters !!!
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There is no reason to switch into paranoia mode.
What Ron says, in most games your files are secured by 2 passwords:
1) Always you'll get a password to upload or download files from autohost. this password is only acessible by the host and admins. Even a cracked Stars version won't be of use because nobody else than yourself can access your m- or x-file on autohost because they will lack the autohost password.
2) The 2nd password is, when you have chosen one, the one you applied to your race file which you'll also use to open a m-file into your Stars-program. In case a cracked Stars version exists, only this password might be void but not the password as mentioned in 1).
So, calm down and don't expect everybody to be a cheater. If you can't fight that paranoia, Stars as an old game with lots of documented exploits and bugs, is the wrong game for you. But as a matter of fact it is rather on the contrary: The Stars player community is, as the game, rather older than usually, more mature and there is a broad base of trust.
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