Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » Apology
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| Apology |
Thu, 13 January 2011 19:12  |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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Greetings,
I owe all of you, but in particular the players in the game Dynamic Duos, an apology. I violated your trust and abused my Host Utility admin power.
Below is what I did and the reasons for it. I'll try not to make up excuses, there aren't any ...
In the Dynamic Duos game I uploaded my .x file, checked the file size and it was different (I must have uploaded an older version and compared size with the latest version). It was very close to gen and instead of acting like a regular player I logged in to the Host Utility and set the game on hold. After assuring the correct .x file was uploaded I took the game off hold to let the game gen.
The other thing I did is worse ... I downloaded the files of the races my team was fighting. Reason for that is I've had it happen to me before that players upload minerals into enemy fleets with no cargo space to make minerals vanish and deny the spoils of the conquest. I've downloaded the files to have a record for a third party to check should there be odd findings once a planet was taken. This was not up to me as a player. I now realize this abuse of power has the appearance of cheating, and I can't blame the players that will be convinced this is the case.
Edit:
For the moment I've been stripped of my admin power. Should I get it back, and I'm not asking for that, you all have my word I will never abuse that power again.
My apologies,
mch
[Updated on: Fri, 14 January 2011 03:20] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Apology |
Fri, 14 January 2011 15:27  |
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 XyliGUN |
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Messages: 325
Registered: July 2004
Location: Russia, St.Petersburg | 
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| craebild wrote |
Yes, but as I understand it he downloaded the m-files of the enemy players, and a player cannot do that.
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Yes, regular player doesn't have a technical possibility to do this, but host can download everything including m and x files.
But IMHO: if one of the players (even if it is host itself) think that there may be a cheating, than host should do everything that he can to verify this. I don't think this is a cheating.
As of putting the game on hold ... I don't like his, but ... in the late game you sometimes have to give players additional time, but it's important that there should be an equal possiblities for all teams.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For LoveReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Apology |
Fri, 14 January 2011 16:21 |
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| Micha wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 01:12 |
The other thing I did is worse ... I downloaded the files of the races my team was fighting. Reason for that is I've had it happen to me before that players upload minerals into enemy fleets with no cargo space to make minerals vanish and deny the spoils of the conquest. I've downloaded the files to have a record for a third party to check should there be odd findings once a planet was taken. This was not up to me as a player. I now realize this abuse of power has the appearance of cheating, and I can't blame the players that will be convinced this is the case.
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Obviously such measures to check for cheating should had been done by the host... who in this case is a playing party... one more point for splitting playing and hosting. The alternative would had been to just set the game on hold until a 3rd party could had been invited to look into things.
As an admin you could download m- and x-files anytime and one gets admin-powers because everybody believes that an admin won't use it for cheating and won't look into the m- or x-files (which, anyway, is only possible when they are not race-passworded).
Mixing player and admin stuff together isn't right, as you see and say yourself and I am sure you won't do it again.
| Micha wrote on Fri, 14 January 2011 01:12 |
For the moment I've been stripped of my admin power. Should I get it back, and I'm not asking for that, you all have my word I will never abuse that power again.
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Since I can't imagine that you actually cheat, my trust is still there. If the players in the game Dynamic Duos won't veto it (I think they deserve a veto in this), I'd prefer if you could get reinstalled as an admin. After all you are a good and active admin I wouldn't like to miss and it would be damned difficult to find a person equally generally accepted and trusted.
Just a curious question: By whose initiative did you get stripped of your admin-powers?
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| Re: Apology |
Fri, 14 January 2011 20:42 |
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| Tabini |
 | Crewman 2nd Class |
Messages: 19
Registered: June 2010
Location: Shejidan | |
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Hi,
I am, or was, one of the players effected by this.
My experience in-game was one of disbelief at a few events. Many could be explained, I suppose, by audacity, luck and skill, but the whole package, along with this revelation has not served to diminish my suspicions.
1. Downloaded turns in case of mineral upload cheating by others.
AH keeps old copies of all game files. Micha is/was an admin, he would know this. Why would this not be enough in any event that merits checking for a cheater? Has he been doing this in other games too? That makes absolutely no sense to me, as it is redundant. If the AH file archive system is not adequate, I would hope Ron would have addressed the issue already.
2. Claiming his file corrupt, hence the hold.
First, which is faster, placing the game on hold, or uploading the correct file. I assume there is a log of this event. I would like to hear from Ron on this, and see if this file was actually loaded at the time he says it was, just before gen. Also, if it was uploaded, and the check determined it was the right year, wouldn't that mean it was not corrupt? Is there a log of this?
Second, I would assume that Micha uses the autohost client. I don't know why I assume this, but perhaps I read it in a post. If that is the case, his whole wrong file upload/corrupt file line is BS, as the interface would take care of all transfer stuff, and getting the right file. Do the logs show if someone uses autohost client vs manual upload?
Third, if the logs show that he downloaded our x files for the last turn played, the turn he placed the game on hold, then nothing else really matters to me. It would be clear proof to me he was cheating. He had no bombers over our planets that turn. There is only one reason to download our x files in that situation, and it certainly is not for an archive.
3. It is entirely possible that he was using a utility to look at our turns.
He only needed to have the m files to make that possible. Having the x files would just be a huge bonus. No passwords are needed. The utility takes care of that problem. I also know he and his partner use the utility I am talking about, as I read the post about it not long ago. He apparently even put together a "How to use" about it.
Yes, it could all be coincidence. Yes he might be totally innocent of cheating, but with this revelation it is most difficult to not jump to the 'logical' conclusion. I may not be 100% convinced he was cheating, but I am far from giving him the pass so many others will probably give him. He had the power, and the tools to cheat. Without a lot more information, It will always be a question mark in my mind.
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| Re: Apology |
Fri, 14 January 2011 21:05 |
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Hi ,
everyone could come down a little bit at least this is still a game.
@all
I check the logs of the game at the moment will take some time without special dates. Need one more file from Ron but he is not there at the moment.
@ Altruist
I think Ron take back Micha's admin rights from the Starsautohost
maybe they stick togeter with the one at the forum.
But I am sure he will get the admin rights back for at least the Forum no matter how this ends. ( he is a great Forum Admin )
ccmaster
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| Re: Apology |
Sat, 15 January 2011 15:51 |
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Hi everyone ,
first excuse my bad english I hope everyone gets what I have to tell.
First it is real difficult for me to write this down because I am a friend of Micha but what he has done is not good and I have to inform you about this after I have checked all the logs of the game Ron gave me.
I only did this because I want to defend Micha and make clear he is not cheating, but well sometimes it comes another way.
What I have done :
I have asked my friend Ron for all the log files of the game.
There you can see the time a turn is uploaded and the time turns are downloaded all are marked with the IP of the person doing this.
I want to check when he starts to download the turns and when he uploads his turns.
What I have found was Player 4 (micha) downloaded m+x files from his neighbour
from year 2407.
The IP of the uploaded x-File from him was the same IP downloaded the m and x Files.
There is no chance he did this because he thinks someone uploads minerals.
So it seems that micha is cheating in this game.
My last word for this are :
Lets please keep it civil.
Micha worked hard on the forum and for us all the years and made a mistake.
Power could corrupt the best.
And I hope he will come back soon.
ccmaster
(still a friend of Micha ! )
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| Re: Apology |
Sat, 15 January 2011 16:44 |
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Hi ,
the problem is that he start to download m-files and x files in yea 2407 and there should not be a reason for this. He had not overrun a planet by that time to see that there are minerals missing!
He downloaded the files of up to 5 Players a turn there should only be a reason to chek for 1 maybe 2 if it is for later check for mineral upload.
ccmaster
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| Re: Apology |
Sat, 15 January 2011 17:09 |
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Sad news, whatever the extent, for everyone involved.
Make sure you stick around Micha, we <3 you here. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes. Real strength is in how we learn and carry on from them.
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| Re: Apology |
Sat, 15 January 2011 18:12 |
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| Orange |
 | Officer Cadet 1st Year |
Messages: 215
Registered: November 2005
Location: TO, ONT, CA | |
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Thank you ccmaster for doing this difficult task.
I am also sad to have had this confirmed and I hope Micha stays around as he was always a person who I could and did ask questions about Stars.
I guess I will ask the next difficult question:
Whoelse may have done this as well, if any?
[Updated on: Sat, 15 January 2011 18:13] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Apology |
Sat, 15 January 2011 19:14 |
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@ Orange
You mean other games ?
- I dont know
You mean this game ?
- dont seems like any other.
- only normal downloads from teams but have not cecked this 100%
only by the way
But only because a person submit in the last second there have not to be something wrong.
ccmaster
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| Re: Apology |
Sat, 15 January 2011 23:37 |
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| Ron |
| Commander
Forum Administrator
Stars! AutoHost Administrator |
Messages: 1231
Registered: October 2002
Location: Collegedale, TN | |
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Regarding Micha's interception of stacked sweepers:
| Quote: |
It was fairly easy, you simply target the whole stack with enough sweepers of your own. Once the other side splits a fleet in orbit (*any* fleet!) Stars! will randomly target all of them! Even fleets you didn't see on your scanners because they are cloaked! This is just something that very very few people know ... those are the things that make experts, well ... "experts". If you don't know it, it's impossible! It will look like magic! ... or cheating <sigh> Not even proving that every move in every game I ever played in was legit will help now, this will never go away. Replying to accusations no longer has a use and apologies are worthless."
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(from Micha)
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This all is my own stupid fault for not knowing any better. I wouldn't even believe myself now and I'm sure you no longer do as well. Situation: I have a record of turns I
shouldn't have, without a sane reason ... nobody will ever believe that after doing this I never crossed the next line. Case closed. Even when seeing that I don't win all my games, heck, I do even had some devestating losses, most of all for example against ccmaster in Reach for the Top.
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(Micha)
There are many things Micha could have done better, like ask me or the game host to backup the game files if he had a concern, or think about the possible consequences of his actions. Unfortunately, in this kind of situation, any explanation for how he played or his reasoning, even when true, would look unbelievable to many.
I do hope Micha stays around, as he has been a very big help here on the forum. This situation can be lived down, but will take time. I hope Micha is willing to stick it out.
Micha no longer has Host Utility admin rights, so I see no reason that he should not continue playing in Stars! games. I agree with several people above that he is an excellent help on the forum and should continue helping out. He has vast Stars! experience and can be a great teacher.
I believe Micha is innocent of actual cheating (using any kind of utility to open other people's turn files), even though the circumstantial evidence against him looks bad. (edit) But I may be wrong. I don't want to believe he may have cheated.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 January 2011 01:10]
Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHostReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Apology |
Sun, 16 January 2011 00:09 |
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| Ron wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 20:37 |
I believe Micha is innocent of actual cheating (using any kind of utility to open other people's turn files), even though the circumstantial evidence against him looks bad.
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Agreed. I think he made a dumb decision, yes, but my gut feeling is that he didn't mean any ill by it. Everybody makes dumb decisions.
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| Re: Apology |
Mon, 17 January 2011 09:45 |
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| rolfverberg |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 103
Registered: March 2006
Location: Ithaca, NY, USA | |
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| Quote: |
I believe Micha is innocent of actual cheating (using any kind of utility to open other people's turn files), even though the circumstantial evidence against him looks bad.
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I also believe he did not actually cheat and I haven't been nearly as active as some of you and haven't played against/with him in many games. As I mentioned to him in a private comm: It would be like playing chess against yourself. It just isn't fun. I don't see why anybody so involved in this game would degrade it for him/herself to this extend. On top of that I don't think he needs to. He didn't get his expert player status by cheating.
Cheers, Rolf.
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| Re: Apology |
Mon, 17 January 2011 10:03 |
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| Orange |
| Officer Cadet 1st Year |
Messages: 215
Registered: November 2005
Location: TO, ONT, CA | |
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I would like to face Micha in battle again.
And I hope that Micha would face us in battle again.
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