Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Order of firing and empty slots
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| Re: Order of firing and empty slots |
Fri, 09 May 2003 10:06   |
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 LEit |
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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| zoid wrote on Fri, 09 May 2003 01:23 |
| LEit wrote on Thu, 08 May 2003 06:09 |
You cannot gain tech from killing bases.
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Are you sure about that?
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I remember some one testing it, they could have been extrememly unlucky...
If you want to know, test it, it shouldn't take more then an hour to get 100 trials or so: Take two races, get one to bio 4 or so (for carbonic armor) make a fort with one armor, colonize 10 worlds with enough pop to build a fort a turn. The other race needs con 3 and probably weapons 3. An xray dd should be able to kill the fort with no problems. Build 10 DDs, park them over the colonies (could include the HW if you degrade the dock). 10 turns of builds and you should know.
You could add in other tech to the fort for even better odds (shield, some elec part, I'd leave off weapons, you'd have to worry about damage).
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Order of firing and empty slots |
Thu, 15 May 2003 10:02 |
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| LEit |
| Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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The reason order matters for BBs (battleships) is because of the different choices in BB design. These are driven by the fact that weapon damage is calculated per slot, then tries to kill whole ships, any left over damage from the slot spreads over the whole stack.
There are 3 basic schools of BB design:
1) Pack em full - put 20 of whatever weapon you choose in all slots, try to do the most damage possible.
2) 16 weapons - put 16 weapons in the 6, 6, and 4 slots. Realizeing that ship kills matter so much, and spreading damage over a stack is not very effective, this design attempts to get the most kills by having big slots full.
and,
3) 12 weapons - taking the 16 BB one step further and just using the 6 and 6 slots for maximum weapon size.
Fewer weapons gives more protection per weapon (more ships with more armor and shields, each loss destroys fewer weapons).
The order matters when arguing between 12 and 16. Since the order is 6 6 2 2 4, the two 6 slots will fire before the 4. The 6 will (hopefully) kill some enemy ships and do some damage to the rest of the stack. The second 6 will kill some more ships (might even be more then the first 6 due to the damage from the first shot), and damage the survivors. The 4 then fires and by this time it should be big enough to get a few more kills.
The loss in damage potential from 20 to 16 is 5.6% (based on the iron cost of Jihad BBs) - less weapons per ship, but more ships. You lose some due to the overhead of the hulls and other stuff. I didn't put anything in the other slots, but in a game I often put sappers in there, cheap, and if something closes, they're very effective.
The lost in damage potential from 16 to 12 is another 8.5% (14% from 20 to 12). Given that the 4 should be enough to get ship kills, especially as it fires after the 6s, I prefer the 16 designs.
Now for bases...
Since the weapon slots on bases are all the same size, I don't see how it would matter execpt for a max init death star, where you'd want beams to fire first. On a non max init, the beam weapons have a higher init and will fire first.
It may also matter if you have weapons 24, and are putting Upsilon torps and Armageddon Missiles on the same base. They have the same weapon init, but you want the Upsilons to fire first in case they can bring the shields down for the Armageddons. Personally, I wouldn't mix missiles and torps on the same platform.
Wow, that was longer then I thought it was going to be...
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Order of firing and empty slots |
Wed, 26 November 2003 11:22 |
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| mlaub |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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Weapons fire based on init first, and if init is the same for two different slots on the same ship (base), then it goes by slot order. Range doesn't matter, however, all the standard beam weapons have higher init if they have shorter ranges (gatlings and sappers are special).
Hmmmm...I'll definitely be testing this, as I can imagine a couple missle/torp combo's that might be quite effective.
If init is the same for slots on different ships, then the order of firing is chosen randomly at the start of the battle, and maintained throughout.
I'll have to check this, as previous tests of mine show contrary results. Ofc, I assumed that the help file was correct, and didn't test it very thoroughly. Plus, I did my testing years ago... Possibly the random factor is nullified on Beams vs. Torps/missiles? The example I am thinking of involves 2 Nub designs, 1 Big Mutha design, the other a Omega design with a stack of Nexi. Both ship weapon slots having the same init, but IIRC, the Big Mutha's <always> fire first. Is this part of <special> properties?
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: Order of firing and empty slots |
Wed, 26 November 2003 12:46 |
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| The Taubat |
 | Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 263
Registered: December 2002 | |
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ok, just testbededded it, my theory failed, and I dont know how, each race had 5 years worth of BBs (I used a pre-defined race and a OWW JOAT with 15 eff facs, 25 facs)
TB-1 (winner)
Engine: Trans-galactic Drive (4)
Weapons: Jihad Missle (16)
Shields: Gorilla ( 8 )
Armour: (none)
Extras 1: Super Comps (3)
Extras 2: Jammer 20 (3)
VS
TB-2 (loser)
same design as TB-1 -10 missles
OWW built 5 years worth of BBs of each design, TB-1 was transfered to pre-defined race
TB-1 (46) won with 35 ships remaining @ 12% damage while a fleet of TB-2 (56) was completly destroyed.
[Updated on: Wed, 26 November 2003 12:49]
Royal Sha'a'kar of the Taubat peopleReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Order of firing and empty slots |
Wed, 26 November 2003 13:23 |
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| Shadow Whist |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 2 |
Messages: 167
Registered: August 2003
Location: Vancouver, WA | |
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| The Taubat wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 11:46 |
ok, just testbededded it, my theory failed, and I dont know how, each race had 5 years worth of BBs (I used a pre-defined race and a OWW JOAT with 15 eff facs, 25 facs)
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I am not sure what you were trying to determine. However, It seems from the described situation that both fleets were exactly the same. The results derive from the random firing order and the fact that with identical fleets the first to fire will obtain a large victory over the other.
If the setup is different or I did not understand your situation, then disregard my message.
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Ummm, sure! 
I do FREESTYLE math.
ONLY 
