[Updated on: Thu, 14 January 2010 15:38]

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I think if we are allowed to coordinate before the game then a atleast a little thought should go into race designs complimenting each other.

Torpedo and I have had some discussions regarding race designs. I'm pretty flexible with adjusting my hab so we don't tread on each others toes so to speak

As for which techs to have cheap, I think this is partially determined but the PRT choosen by each player. Eg. an AR is almost certainly going to want to take Energy cheap, a Warmonger would want cheap Construction etc.

If it is a team game, does this mean that starting positions are going to modified so team mates start on the same side of the map?


Cheers

Pydna

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Wow there's been a lot of traffic since yesterday! Ok here I am to "clarify" in TorPedo's humble opinion

Firstly, the races:
My plan was to have a balance of co-operative teams: not altogether independant races, but at the same time not completely tuned to one another. My plan is that each new player should decide on the PRT he wants to play (any is available). I would recommend choosing a race you are maybe a little uncertain about strategy for. Once the race has been decided, build your race in a way that you think would suit your chosen PRT. Send this off to your team leader, who will evaluate firstly whether there are any changes you could make to improve your race for that PRT, and then secondly, changes to make the teams a little better suited. By this I mean making sure habs don't cross, but when it comes to tech and resources - PRT comes first and then team.

Maybe I should clarify the whole team aspect a little more. I wanted this game to be a sandbox game, where the new players tried out a race they weren't sure about the tactics for. But on your own this is a little difficult, because you could be making horrendous mistakes and not realise it until you were annihilated by another player who was doing roughly the right thing.
I give you a real (if drastic) example. Years ago, when I first found this game, (before I lost it for years, found it again and then stumbled across this forum), I did not understand the value of mines and factories. Sure, I thought, if my planets aren't building anything else, I'll get them to autobuild mines then factories (this was stars 2.0). However, most of the time they were building stuff which meant that my resource income was very very slow. Which meant that when I found an AI player, they wiped the floor with me and I just didn't get why. Extreme example I know, but go with me.
So, the reason I rambled on about this weird autobiographical story is that if we were all to just play on our own, we could easily be making silly mistakes, but have no-one to tell us why it didn't work. So by adding experienced players and teaming them up with a couple of the new players, the new players then have someone to explain why certain tactics will work in certain places for certain races etc.
To conclude, the teamwork in this game will more just be a formal alliance, so teams will obviously want to work together, and don't want to be stepping on one another's toes habs-wise, but other than that they should be races that would be able to function alone. (I also think this gives the game more realism, as two races who found each other in space would have developed entirely separately and so would not necessarily complement one another completely.

Secondly, the map:
I was originally toying with the idea of editing the map to put teams together, but pydna certainly has a point that it would be very interesting to just be placed randomly, and it would reinforce the need to have a race that could stand up on its own long enough to reach team-mates. I like it. Are there any objections to this? I think maybe we should vote on this when the time comes to begin the game.

Finally, I would like to apologise most humbly for the excessive length of this post.

[edit] It's not as bad as I thought...

and Einherjock, would you be interested in joining us?

[Updated on: Fri, 15 January 2010 07:46]

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beanspoon wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 13:44

Secondly, the map: I was originally toying with the idea of editing the map to put teams together, but pydna certainly has a point that it would be very interesting to just be placed randomly, and it would reinforce the need to have a race that could stand up on its own long enough to reach team-mates. I like it. Are there any objections to this? I think maybe we should vote on this when the time comes to begin the game.

Hm, random is tricky ... IMHO you either make sure every team starts together or NO team starts together. Back in the days with not too many utilities and less knowledge about seeds I played a team game with random player positions ... except one team started all 3 right next to eachother ... guess which team won? (well, truth be told they were good anyway <g>)

Less important in this case since you don't want teams with races that compliment eachother, but any team starting together will still have an advantage.

I recently played in a teamgame (hosted by AE) that had 2 player teams that were apart, game was set up that there was always at least one race between teammembers, it was great fun!



Are alliances between non teammembers allowed?

mch

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"Micha wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 10:16

Hm, random is tricky ... IMHO you either make sure every team starts together or NO team starts together.

You have a point. As you said, it would be less important in this case what with the races not completely complementing one another.

So I suppose that leaves us with three choices:
a)Teams are placed together on the map
b)Teams are manually spread out making sure no-one starts near their team-mates
c)Players placed randomly by stars

My favour lies with c), especially if we say that inter-team alliances are allowed. That will add an extra dimension to the game, where some of your alliances are permanent (intra-team), and some are more volatile (inter-team). Even better, if we say that the inter-team alliances are up to the individual player - the rest of your team don't have to be allied with players you ally with, creating a perfect environment for temporary alliances, backstabbing and other politics that would make the game much more interesting.

Another idea has popped into my head
If inter-team alliances are to be allowed, should we have some kind of declaration of war rule, where you must give 5 turns notice if you are declaring war. That might promote some more sneaky tactics (I've thought of a few

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beanspoon wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 16:57

c)Players placed randomly by stars My favour lies with c), especially if we say that inter-team alliances are allowed.

Sounds interesting, but that will mean all races will have less room for tweaks if all of them need to be able to stand alone. Will hab-matching ever be ndesirable or needed? It also naturally leads to a few main PRT choices. Who's the novice that will dare an HE or an AR? Will any Team be able to do without an IT?

And Diplomacy, of course, adds a whole new dimension to the game. A very dangerous one, even.

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Well in this case we don't want to be tweaking the races too much because this is more of a learning experience, ideally this game would be a free-for-all. However, I think it better if the inexperienced players have someone to talk to to discuss ideas with. It could have been a game with all inexperienced players and then just experienced "spectators", but I think you'll agree that the experienced players would much rather be a part of the action than stuck on the sidelines giving advice.
Finally, the tutor needs to be on the same team as the newbie, because otherwise when asking for advice you would be giving out sensitive information about your plans (which if you're not on a team with the the person would be difficult not to use for your own plans )

So teams on here are less a tight-knit alliance as a support network so the newbie always has someone to rely on and ask advice from as the game progresses. So hab-matching is worth it just to make sure that you're not stealing planets from someone else in your team for whom they would be really useful.

As far as PRT choices goes, HE happens to be my best race! I think I will choose another though for the purposes of this game because as I said it is a chance to get to grips with a new race at the same time. It is very important that the players choose a race that they want to try, rather than one for the purpose of the team.

Sorry this is taking so long to properly clarify, my ideas for this are still setting :S

Do you think this sounds like a plan?

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beanspoon wrote on Fri, 15 January 2010 04:44

and Einherjock, would you be interested in joining us?

Thanks for the invite, but no. I'm already in one game, and committed to starting another soon. That's as much fun as I'm allowed to have, being married with kids

I think this is a Great game format though. It should be rewarding for the Team Leaders who pass along their wisdom, and will significantly elevate the game of those who join in to learn from the Masters. Best wishes to all.

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beanspoon wrote on Sat, 16 January 2010 13:45

So teams on here are less a tight-knit alliance as a support network so the newbie always has someone to rely on and ask advice from as the game progresses. So hab-matching is worth it just to make sure that you're not stealing planets from someone else in your team for whom they would be really useful.

Makes sense, but most Team games are more tight-knit than that. Mutual protection of teammates starting all near each other is a huge factor. As is trade and intersettling from early on.

This other kind of "Team" game is a very different beast. More autonomy for all involved, but woe the rookie that starts next to a rabid old-timer and/or several hostile neighbors. Advice is very good, but a relief fleet is even better.

Quote:

As far as PRT choices goes, HE happens to be my best race!

Now that would be quite the challenge, maintaining reasonable trade and support across who knows what kind of hostile territory without gates!

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Well thank you! Anyway, currently we haven't had that much more publicity, so I don't think we'll be starting yet for a while. So for now the offer stands in case you do become available

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Hey I'm back from a long stint of not playing stars - and I think you're right. If you want to set up the game, I'd be happy to join in for a tiny universe brawl between noobs

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