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Wrong firing order ? Thu, 11 March 2010 15:01 Go to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I have a battle where my vessels did not fire in the expected order - It did not change the outcome of that battle, but it could change the outcome of other battles if it happens again. The vessels involved are:

13 Nubians with base initiative of 63 and MDs, for a final initiative of 69.

Death Star with base initiative of 63 and Armageddons, for a final initiative of 66.

A number of additional ships with poorer initiative, some of them belonging to an ally of mine.

2 Enemy chaff (no other enemy ships).

The Nubians did not fire, though the enemy chaff was in range, and it seems to me that the Nubians should have fired, leaving no targets for the Death Star to fire on.

In this battle it did not make any difference, 64 Armageddons at each of the 2 enemy chaff killed them, but if there had been hundreds of enemy chaff along with other warships, then it would have made a difference, as the Nubians could kill about 1200 chaff in a volley, while the Death Star can only fire 128 Armageddons, which I would of course prefer hit something more solid than chaff.

The battle orders were attack enemies, primary target armed ships, secondary target any, so there was no reason in the battle orders for the Nubians not to fire on those enemy chaff.

Has anyone seen that kind of behaviour before, and can anyone explain why that happened ?

I can e-mail the game files to any trustworthy neutral party for examination if desired, but I obviously do not want the game files and game password to end up in the hands of my enemies in that game - They seem to have enough of an advantage already.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: Wrong firing order ? Thu, 11 March 2010 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
In contrary to common beliefs init *really* caps at 63. Weap init does *not* matter once the ship or SB hits 63. That means who shoots first (your ship with 63 init and MDs or your DS with 63 init and armas) is random.

Edit: link to testbed for the disbelievers. Wink See how two nub designs with each 63 init but one with omegas (weap init 4) and one with armas (weap init 3) shoot eachother with a random firing order.

Edit 2: my advice would be to lower init of your DS, of course that means it would fire after any possible enemy missile nubs with init 63 ... only other option is to pray to the Random Number God.

mch


[Updated on: Thu, 11 March 2010 15:24]

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Re: Wrong firing order ? Thu, 11 March 2010 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
Micha wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 21:17

In contrary to common beliefs init *really* caps at 63. Weap init does *not* matter once the ship or SB hits 63. That means who shoots first (your ship with 63 init and MDs or your DS with 63 init and armas) is random.

That little detail isn't too common knowledge, I'd say. Perhaps it should go to the "Must Know" section?



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Wrong firing order ? Fri, 12 March 2010 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 01:14

Micha wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 21:17

In contrary to common beliefs init *really* caps at 63. Weap init does *not* matter once the ship or SB hits 63. That means who shoots first (your ship with 63 init and MDs or your DS with 63 init and armas) is random.

That little detail isn't too common knowledge, I'd say. Perhaps it should go to the "Must Know" section?


No, not common knowledge at all. I thought I knew all of the caps and important math related to Stars!, but I did not know that there was a cap on init.

Perhaps those Death Stars should be replaced with a design that has one slot fewer Nexi, replaced by jammers or beam deflectors. Enemy ships are still pretty unlikely to exceed that initiative, and having those Nubians fire first is important.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: Wrong firing order ? Fri, 12 March 2010 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
Rather than reduce the DS init, risking your opponent getting to fire first, you might want to consider just splitting up your anti-chaff nubians into more stacks.

Such nubians will usually die in the first round anyway, so they don't need to stack for defence. They're designed to kill chaff, so again, they don't need to stack for offence.

If you split them into enough fleets, then roughly half of them will fire before the orbital.

If that isn't efficient enough, than yeah, you need to push the death star's init under 63... And just hope init 63 missile ships don't show up with attack starbase orders.

PS: you can't put beam deflectors on an orbital - no mechanical slots Wink


[Updated on: Fri, 12 March 2010 16:09]

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Re: Wrong firing order ? Wed, 17 March 2010 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
craebild wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 07:31

[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 01:14]
Micha wrote on Thu, 11 March 2010 21:17

In contrary to common beliefs init *really* caps at 63. Weap init does *not* matter once the ship or SB hits 63. That means who shoots first (your ship with 63 init and MDs or your DS with 63 init and armas) is random.

That little detail isn't too common knowledge, I'd say. Perhaps it should go to the "Must Know" section?


No, not common knowledge at all. I thought I knew all of the caps and important math related to Stars!, but I did not know that there was a cap on init.


What would life be without any surprises? Smile

Probably should start a thread "what to add to the Must Know", same for Bug section ... my own to do list regarding those two disappeared ...

mch

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Re: Wrong firing order ? Wed, 17 March 2010 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
Micha wrote on Wed, 17 March 2010 16:12

Probably should start a thread "what to add to the Must Know", same for Bug section ...

I second that. Deal



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Wrong firing order ? Thu, 20 January 2011 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gwellman is currently offline gwellman

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 66
Registered: January 2007
Location: Seattle, WA

If total init is equal (or maxed at 63+) is there any tie breaker?

For example, would base init 57 + BMCs be exactly equal to base init 60 + ARMs ... and thus have a 50% chance of firing first?

I'm guessing there's no tie breaker, or it would be useful at much lower init values, and thus well known.

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Re: Wrong firing order ? Fri, 21 January 2011 00:41 Go to previous message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
Lt. Commander
Dueling Club Administrator

Messages: 985
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany

gwellman wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 04:00

If total init is equal (or maxed at 63+) is there any tie breaker?



Hi ,


no tie breaker like normal if the ships have same ini.


ccmaster

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