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Hard Rocks and Pirates Fri, 22 January 2010 20:41 Go to next message
GreyMatter is currently offline GreyMatter

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 57
Registered: September 2004
Location: USA
Greetings all races!

Following great balancing ideas and successful setups of HardRocks, Glacier, DigIt Thumbsup 2
- here is another one in the same spirit trying to resolve all found issues!
No matter what your skill, style or RL-workload - come on in! We will have some serious fun here Fire bounce
This will be a relatively low-MM game (especially in the beginning) with slow tech and low minerals.
Most battles will involve only a handful of warships on each side.
It will be all about choices: - starting from the race selection, down to the question of collaborating with the Pirates thus getting ahead of the competition but possibly setting yourself up for a nasty Pirate raid later on...

special setup rules
i. 'mineless game setup': This is a game for ‚mineless’ races. Your mine settings must be 5/15/5.

On the other hand, factoryless races are banned. Your factory settings may not be worse than 10/10/10.
The middle number may not be raised, the other two may not be lowered. You are free to make the settings better.

ii. Additional balancing and fun will be provided by host race "The Pirates" which will not expand beyond its initial area(*) and will only fight for hire.
It will be possible to communicate with The Pirates only via in-game message system within the following framework:


- Buy information, special ships, technology in exchange for minerals or planets in your area.
- Bid on Pirate raids against other races every 5-10 years.
- Enlist Pirate support in a critical operation or defense.
Pirate Pirate Pirate
-if you want to be The Pirate apply below (please intermidiate+ only)

iii. 100% No Dropouts - if you decide you can not continue, want to drop etc. - you simply join The Pirates...
e.g. you transfer race control or become allied with the Pirates and forfeit your claim to victory.
You gain access to various pirate toys/technology and can continue to play yourself or form Pirate Alliance
with another fellow buccaneer but your race can not expand beyond what you have left at the time of going rouge...
However you can wreak havoc in your original starting arm as you see fit otherwise, short of bombing or taking over a player planets...
...unless your pirate bases&planets have been invaded Laughing)


game play rules

1. Only 1 race per player.
2. ALL players MUST be set to 'enemy'. (except pirates e.g. if you need to get a ship transfer or collaborate during some operation)
3. ALL players MUST have all ships battle orders set to 'attack enemies' or 'attack everyone'
4. No alliances, no NAPs, single player victory only!
5. No Communication between players of any kind! except to the host; Contact The Pirates via ingame messages only.
5a. You can communicate freely with the players on the dark side after you join them...
6. No tech trading - in the sense that races can not setup wolf-lamb or pop-drop sites;
However one can send an observer to the battle or scrap/fight with high tech ships over enemy worlds.
7. Chaff, Splitfleet Dodge, and “Repair after Gating” are allowed!
8. Everything else on the standard Cheats LIST is disallowed. (Includes False Public Player scores, and Exploding Minefield Dodge for SDs)
9. All missile/torp ships must have movement 2 or less.(excludes WM bonus)

=the following rules are being analyzed for inclusion=
10. Limit on total number of mining bots being built - to keep the [war]fleet numbers low and more interesting to fight.


Race designs - general restrictions
1. Weapons MUST be set to expensive.
2. Construction MUST be set to normal or expensive


Race designs - individual restrictions
HE       -  
PP       -  
WM       - 
SS       -  Propulsion Expensive or
         -  60 points to defenses (vote?)

IS       -  Must check LSP,
         -  30 points to defenses (vote?)

IT       -  Must check LSP,CE,GR NOT-check ARM
         -  Construction,Propulsion Expensive.
            200 points to defenses. (vote?)

JOAT     -  Must check LSP. not-check NAS
            150 points to defenses.

CA       -  Must check LSP,UR not-check TT
            180 points to defenses.

SD       -  Must NOT check ARM,NAS
         -  Propulsion Expensive.
         -  No Detonating minefields after first 50 years.
            (Each infraction results in a banned turn, so you can do it with penalty. the ban is applied when found&reported)

AR       -  Must check LSP,CE,GR not-check ARM; (+UR? vote)
         -  Construction,Energy Expensive.
         -  150 points to defenses
         [removing] Can NOT use missiles on StarBases


Game Parameters

15 Players + Pirates/host Sample Distribution Map
I'd like to remap Large/Sparse|Normal to spiral arms galaxy so that no player starts in the corner or center, but have virtually symmetric setup with The Pirates in the dead center.- if you have remapping experience of that sort please let me know!

PRE-SETUP:
Each player race will be grown for a few turns then placed on freighters/colonizers and moved to the outer tip of the spiral arm. The target is 250K people(200K for LSP) plus some minerals from the HW. Also a few scouts and a destroyer will be available at the start.

Player Positions: Distant
AccBBs          : checked
Galaxy Clumping : checked
Slower Tech Adv : checked

All others      : unchecked

Victory: Last race standing
TO turn on the public player scores ONLY: 
   Player exceeds second place by 50%,
   At least 100 years must pass before a winner is declared


Schedule
5 days a week until turn 30, then dropping to 4, 3/week as requested
accelerated gens@ 1-1-2-2-2-2-2 then one turn/generation

Q&A
1. What prt the pirates are?
...Most likely SS to be in the spirit of the game but maybe WM or other depending on the races submitted or host-player preference.

2. You are not providing a list of what can be bought for exactly what price?

...Exactly! the whole point of the Pirate race is to even out some unknown imbalances so the same pirate raider-ship or tech will cost top dogs some fortune or not even available whereas weaker player may even get them for free.

3. Will WM's be able to buy minelayers?
... Rolling Eyes Uhmm, definitely not at the start, but most probably later on especially if there is some bully pressing WM into a corner Nod (see #2)

4. You don't say if you can kill the pirate, or if his planets are off limits, or did I miss that?
...Frankly I want this option to be available Shocked however lets say the consequences for incursion into center zone(or pirate base elsewhere later on) will allow the Pirate(s) to invade the aggressor Laughing

5. If you are not limiting race GR, then LSP is not much of a penalty.
...Right on Matt!, however see the pre-setup(orbital start for all races) and also its another checkbox ticked so any combo of good LRTs will then cost some more to that race in the end. Fire bounce Fire bounce Fire bounce


[Updated on: Mon, 25 January 2010 12:03]

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Hard Rocks and Pirates for Updates only Fri, 22 January 2010 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMatter is currently offline GreyMatter

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 57
Registered: September 2004
Location: USA
Look for setup updates in the first post

Race design restriction is currently underway. If there is nobody willing to try to play IT,AR with the current settings (no races submitted) I will privately ask top players to list their max restriction level at which they will be willing to take on IT/AR. However, please remember no matter what your race choice is if you are struggling or head and shoulders ahead of the competition there are "Pirates" in this galaxy ...

Current Positions:

HOST: GreyMatter (not playing if Pirate player is found)

Races/Player in:


[Updated on: Mon, 25 January 2010 10:59]

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates for Updates only Sun, 24 January 2010 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
I am interested in this game, just wondering about the spiral galaxy. Is it going to be one player per arm of the spiral? Can we get an idea what the spiral galaxy will look like? Seeing an example of this would help with race design.

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 24 January 2010 02:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA
I see an couple issues/observations.

1. You have not said what prt the pirate is

2. You are not providing a list of what can be bought for exactly what price

3. Will WM's be able to buy minelayers?

4. You don't say if you can kill the pirate, or if his planets are off limits, or did I miss that?

5. If you are not limiting race GR, then LSP is not much of a penalty.

-Matt

P.S. I like the game post format. It looks familiar... Smile



Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 24 January 2010 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
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Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

Who in there right mind would want to use Cheap engines. Thats hardly fair to make someone have to use CE.
Id rather take a 600 point penalty then to worry about only half my army not arriving for battle.



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Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 24 January 2010 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
I think most players would not willingly take CE. The cheap engines is an attempt to balance the two PRTs that have a huge advantage in this game setup, IT & AR. Other games with this mine setup have simply banned IT & AR, so this host is trying to allow them but balance their advantage.

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 24 January 2010 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

ManicLurch wrote on Sun, 24 January 2010 16:42

I think most players would not willingly take CE. The cheap engines is an attempt to balance the two PRTs that have a huge advantage in this game setup, IT & AR. Other games with this mine setup have simply banned IT & AR, so this host is trying to allow them but balance their advantage.


There's only a -30 point difference between Joat and CA which doesnt seem balanced. No penalty on WM seems strange. No missiles on AR SB's lol. wow just noticed 200 points to defenses for IT. lol how can there be only -180 for CA. CA should have the most disadvantages.
Why not minus points away from IT Or ban them from any/800 gates. Possibly make them take worse hab settings.CE doesnt balance anything. In my opinion CE makes any race Broken.(it barely gives any points.) You get 400 BB's traveling at Warp 9 to attack but only half that reaches thus losing half your army and cripples you.
Yeah sure IT gates alot but you cant gate your force to there planets which is most important in a game. Someone couldnt even win with honor or pride against someone with CE in my eyes.

EDIT: I'm not starting anything I just want to see fair play. Im sure everyone will have fun, enjoy.


[Updated on: Sun, 24 January 2010 19:54]




......
Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 24 January 2010 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA
slimdrag00n wrote on Sun, 24 January 2010 18:42

Someone couldnt even win with honor or pride against someone with CE in my eyes.


CE + IT is doable.

I have known some good players that take that combo just to point mine with NRSE. Makes the prop11 Interspace10 engine pretty damn cheap. Or any engine for that matter, but you get the best bang for the buck with Exp prop and NRSE.

So, the question becomes, how would feel if you *lost* to a race with CE. Wink

-Matt



Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 24 January 2010 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
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Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

mlaub wrote on Sun, 24 January 2010 20:29

slimdrag00n wrote on Sun, 24 January 2010 18:42

Someone couldnt even win with honor or pride against someone with CE in my eyes.


CE + IT is doable.

I have known some good players that take that combo just to point mine with NRSE. Makes the prop11 Interspace10 engine pretty damn cheap. Or any engine for that matter, but you get the best bang for the buck with Exp prop and NRSE.

So, the question becomes, how would feel if you *lost* to a race with CE. Wink

-Matt



I dont think I would lose to someone with CE unless they were really experienced. But hey I can admit Im just a newbie so I could be wrong. CE is definitely not something Id ever want to take willingly.



......
Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 24 January 2010 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMatter is currently offline GreyMatter

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 57
Registered: September 2004
Location: USA
mlaub wrote on Sun, 24 January 2010 20:29

slimdrag00n wrote on Sun, 24 January 2010 18:42

Someone couldnt even win with honor or pride against someone with CE in my eyes.


CE + IT is doable.

I have known some good players that take that combo just to point mine with NRSE. Makes the prop11 Interspace10 engine pretty damn cheap. Or any engine for that matter, but you get the best bang for the buck with Exp prop and NRSE.

So, the question becomes, how would feel if you *lost* to a race with CE. Wink

-Matt



Double that! IT+CE is *very* doable... plus in this setup IT may be a killer race. I'd really love to see IT here, but I am really happy that CE is making people think twice about it Laughing

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 24 January 2010 23:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
I ran a test and found that the combination of slow tech advances, expensive Con & GR to very limiting to the IT & AR races. It takes a long time to get good mining robots. I think this may limit them more than CE. Other races can take Con normal and not take GR and get the better mining robots much sooner.

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Tue, 26 January 2010 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10
GreyMatter wrote on Sat, 23 January 2010 11:41

Greetings all races!


PRE-SETUP:
Each player race will be grown for a few turns then placed on freighters/colonizers and moved to the outer tip of the spiral arm. The target is 250K people(200K for LSP) plus some minerals from the HW. Also a few scouts and a destroyer will be available at the start.




Who is providing the freighters? Scouts?

Are they to be a standard design or will they be based on our race abilities/tech at start?

What happens to our HW's? If someone has a better chance of reaching theirs doesn't that imbalance things?

Presumably, any starting vessells will be deleted too.

A 4% HE may take a bit longer than a few turns to reach 250k of pop.







Goober.

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Sun, 21 March 2010 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
This looks cool. Is it dead?

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Tue, 23 March 2010 02:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10
neilhoward wrote on Mon, 22 March 2010 02:23

This looks cool. Is it dead?


Appears so.

My comments were not intended to put a dampener on things.

I was looking to join once all the details were sorted.

As you say, looks like a good game set up overall.




Goober.

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Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates Fri, 26 March 2010 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
The homeworlds should be remapped to the relevant places, rather than move the populations to some other world. This can be done easily enough, and would be a much more balanced start (same minerals etc for everyone, no random homeworlds scattered around.)

Is forcing en expensive and con expensive and no-ARM on AR maybe a bit too crippling?

If you want to keep a handle on the metal gained from remote mining, maybe just force everyone to take OBRM, instead of trying to enforce some in game limit. If you do set an in game limit, I'd suggest making it based on remote mines operated, rather than ship / module count.

Forcing CE on anyone isn't a penalty. You're better off just forcing more points to defences and let the player decide if they want to counter that with CE or not. CE is a well balanced PRT. I've won with it - to an extent *because of it - several times. I've taken it in about half my games (I have a love/hate relationship with it, cheap ships and RW points are fantastic, logistics penalty is not a big problem, tactical penalty is Laughing )

WM might need penalising. Their discount on weapons will be fantastic with these metal settings.


[Updated on: Fri, 26 March 2010 09:18]

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Topic locked (Re: Hard Rocks and Pirates) Mon, 21 June 2010 11:03 Go to previous message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Summer cleaning! Old topic, locked.

mch,
modaw

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