WARNING - player KALOTH

I just want to show and to warn all players, how KALOTH is thinking about the breaking of NAPs. Everybody should know that, before he signs treaties with KALOTH!!!

As well KALOTH didn’t tell anybody - including the host (!) - that he played the empire of his ally as well - because of RL issues of his ally - for the last 35 of the 57 game-years in Fledgling Admiral 6 (FA6)!

As well KALOTH played as an advanced beginner in FA6. The host ruled out before, that an advanced beginner is somebody with up to 3 games vs humans and who was not part of the winning alliance. But KALOTH was member of the winning alliance in FA4 before! As a lower intermediate he would have had a bigger penalty ...

Below the ingame message (FA6, to all) of KALOTH regarding his NAP with Boomerlu (not me!). Even if I don’t know, what exactly terms his NAP with boomerlu had (how could Boomerlu know, what enemies are killed by KALOTH? Boomerlu told me, they agreed a 10-year-exit). KALOTH destroyed the Boomerlu-MT-trading-fleet inside the Boomerlu empire, not within his one, as mentioned by him! He started to sweep minefields of Boomerlu inside the Boomerlu-empire before. And all this as the player of the leading alliance and without cancellation of the NAP ...


from: Sentient Cheese (= KALOTH)

Honestly, you wouldn't go for an opportunity like that if your enemy sent 5K of minerals -undefended- to the very edge of your border? If you had the chance to deny him the MT just before your attack, you wouldn't? It's not like I've attacked any of your worlds yet.

I have honoured our NAP for the last 54 years until every single other bordering enemy has been destroyed, exactly as we both agreed it would last for. The Users are basically defeated, they're already at half size. I've got no-one else to attack.. and anyway, a NAP is worth what it will cost your enemy to break. If he's on the verge of attacking you and you both know it, it's worthless and you should take precautions. If it would hurt him significantly to fight you, it's solid. And for the last 50 years ours has been solid. But please remember it's a game, don't get too mad at me because you took a risk not escorting your freighters into my territory and they predictably got shot down..



All together I don’t know, what kind of character KALOTH might be. Everybody can think about the behavior of KALOTH on his own. I just wanted to provide the facts and the point of view of KALOTH to everybody .

Take care, if you think about treaties with player KALOTH!

Any comments?


Taka Tuka

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Welcome to gunboat diplomacy.

I've done my share of venting on here about these things too. "It's a zero-sum game. What, do you expect it to be fair or something?"

[Updated on: Sat, 01 August 2009 19:23]

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Eagle of Fire wrote on Sun, 02 August 2009 11:03

I fail to see why this should be public. Widely known in the game, yes. But public for everybody else?

Ah but EoF, this just shows that you're new to HWF. There's this whole subgroup of Stars! players that firmly believe that you should adhere absolutely to the letter(if not spirit) of every in-game agreement you make and that breaking such agreements is a vile, evil & err veil thing to do. People who do such things must be denounced so that others know to be wary of them and so that they do not fall prey to such despicable acts in the future. I rather suspect that some players even keep lists, so they can keep track of who it's safe to negotiate with.

Also, IMNSHO 10 years is a ridiculously long escape clause for a mere NAP.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 August 2009 19:56]

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Kaloth wrote on Sun, 02 August 2009 02:50

I'm not even going to bother to point out the errors, because this whole thing can be summed up in two words: Sore loser.

Very substantial comment

Kaloth

Consider the vast majority of allies and neutrals who I have NOT broken my agreement with, ... I've had my treaties broken many times, ...

Wow, an advanced beginner - sorry, now low intermediate - with sooo much experience ... ? Out of 3 or 4 games? I really can't believe! Or did you play under different names before?

If not, your argue seems to be assertion without substance and not sincere.

Kaloth

it's just part of Stars. If you don't like it, defeat your enemy. Don't go on a crusade against that player outside the game it's petty...

If somebody doesn't like your style or your idea of playing Stars! he shouldn't trust into you and should avoid agreements with you - and of course, defeat you . It's not a crusade outside the game, it's just an information for the comunity to take care. What's wrong? If your traties were broken so many times, as written by you, you are free to warn the comunity as well. I would be appreciative to get such information about other players with the same point of view like you .

I don't want you to be accused, ignored, banned or attacked in the future. So it's no crusade! It's just a warning, nothing more but nothing less . Everybody is free to ignore this warning, isn't he?

If you want to avoid such warnings you could think about your behavior or about agreeing only 3-year-exits in NAPs and regulary cancellation by you. It could be difficult for you to get NAPs in future, if people understand your ruthless view of playing Stars!

And thank you for your comments, confirming my warning

Just my 2 cents

Taka Tuka

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Eagle of Fire wrote on Sat, 01 August 2009 19:03

I fail to see why this should be public. Widely known in the game, yes. But public for everybody else?

We all invest a lot of time into playing Stars!. Some players you meet first time. It's boring to be backstabbed after much time. So I welcome every information about players, who play Stars! in a ruthless style. I would be able to take care with the specifications of any agreement with them, wouldn't intersettle with such a player and wouldn't see any violation of treaty of such a player as a "misunderstanding" anymore .

Taka Tuka

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slimdrag00n wrote on Sun, 02 August 2009 13:23

Crying in public about someones play style for one game doesnt mean they back stab in every game. Maybe its just cause teammate was weekling and it was more efficient to take his planets. like in all games BS happens.

I'm not crying, I'm just giving information to interested players . For players, who think, breaking NAPs are common and o.k., it might be nothing for their interest. For players, who trust into players with good reputation only, this information could have some value . Everybody, who doesn't need such information, is free to ignore it, isn't he?

And who knows, if something happens in one game only?

Everybody, who is playing with me, knows, that I always held my agreements, but in exactly agreed terms only, of course . I don't want to win by violation of agreements. Such a victory doesn't taste sweet for me .

And I have no problems to loose against players, who plays better or did better than me in deciding battles. To play a decided game until end is a waste of time. Everybody who wants to fight something out in already decided games can use battlesim, imo.

Taka Tuka

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Kaloth wrote on Sun, 02 August 2009 07:17

It seems to me you're just upset that you lost to someone you think you're better than.!

Kaloth, you tend to argue with guesses instead with facts. On the other side I'm missing your answers to facts, not contradicted by you yet ...

Kaloth

You mocked me in private messages to my ally at the beginning of the game, and publicly after I finished off the Bureaucrats ...

Weren't your selfprouded announcements provocations? Players, who celebrate themself ingame so much are rarely seen. Thank you to meet you as such a player . I just gave the right answer, not contradicted by you after . Bureaucrats did like my comment .

Regarding my exchange of e-mails with Conrad I don't remember exactly, what I said to him about you. But, really, I haven't seen players like you before, giving so many public ingame statements/propaganda and seem to believe to impress the other players with this stuff . You wrote in your gamestory (http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=432 0&start=0&rid=483&S=b02b5380821d4f5ac0232f6f0d26 7a33), "All my neighbours agreed to NAPs because they did not want to fight 2v1 against us, and themselves started to look for allies (while I made sure that the Bureacrats were not going to be assisted by anyone by telling everyone else how threatening they were, how they planned on attacking my neighbours and were asking me for help in doing so - this gave me credibility while weakening the credibility of the 'Crats)."

Really no reason to mock somebody who believes so much into himself? Our alliance didn't believe into your comments from the very beginning Bureaucrats had the disadvantage to have the corner position with two neighbors only, who already had an ally (and in this game alliances were limited by two members only!) ...

Kaloth

... but when push came to shove you were beaten. And not only that, but you gave up instead of fighting it out.

??? Fighting out what? If your alliance has more res than second and third ranked alliances together (For details look into your own gamestory!) and both other alliances stick in a long lasting war against each other, what you want to fight out? I don't understand your statement in this point .

Kaloth

Should I make a public announcement when players give up when behind instead of fighting a real campaign until unable to fight? This behavior is often repeated, and is pretty frustrating.

What is frustrating you, if you win by voting and host confirms that you are far ahead in res? You wrote in your gamestory: "By 2440 we had almost the top half of the map, our factories were ramping hard and it was pretty much decided." Do you enjoy to win battles with better tech and much more res? Why are you not happy, if all player declare you as the winner? Maybe you wanted to damage my reputation only instead of contradicting facts against you?

Kaloth

And seriously, I would expect most players to take out an unescorted MT fleet right on their border of the next enemy in their sights. This isn't a backstab like betraying an ally, it's a skirmish attack on a hostile SS neighbour with only 3 minesweepers AFTER a vote had been taken that the game be ended! And the game did end 3 turns later. So stop blowing this out of proportion, it's boring and sad!

And seriously, I would expect most players NOT to take out an unescorted MT fleet right on their border of the next enemy in their sights, IF they have a NAP with him, as YOU had!!! Maybe some would do, if this action would decide about winning the whole game. But at this stage of the game you was the winner already and your opponent wasn't ranked second! So I can't see any reasonable excuse in your behavior and see my warning about your view of diplomacy and gameplay confirmed by you .

But don't worry, it might be, that most players of the comunity don't care about NAP breaking players. My warning is for the small group of players only, who agree NAPs with trustworthy players only . And this shouldn't be a serious prob

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This isn't a competition to see who can construct the best argument Taka Taka and I'm not going to be engaged by your trolling and write up big posts quoting and refuting every point. If only you put as much effort into Stars! as you do with forum drama...

The game was over when I broke the NAP. Diplomacy doesn't mean much at right at the end.. especially when you yourself had already voted that it was inevitable. This didn't change anything in the 3 turns it was left to gen for, the game was finished. Get over it!

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Seems to me the ruthless player who managed a big win thanks in part to sterling diplomacy cares too much about what others might think.

So what if some players don't generally trust backstabbers or anonymous players? If he's so good he'll win his next game anyways, won't he?

I've witnessed over the years far lower and damaging actions than sniping an unescorted freight fleet. Wars have been declared and reputations have been ruined for less.

Hopefully future games will bring to each what they deserve.

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Well, as the Bureaucrats, and being on the receiving end of Kaloths forces for most of the game (at least the parts that I was alive for ) I would like to stress how approachable and friendly he was 'out of character' offering help and insights (too late for me to use them against him, but of massive use in my other/future games).

In game he stopped at nothing to get his win, spreading fact and fiction alike. I really do not see anything wrong with that (except that it may have backfired if the other players had realized and joined together a little earlier).

I would play in a game with him any day (Ally or Enemy).

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Hear, Hear!

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Yeah, but Kaloth is a banana bender.

I mean ... seriously ... you'd have to be mad to trust one of them.

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Soobie wrote on Sat, 05 September 2009 00:28

Yeah, but Kaloth is a banana bender. I mean ... seriously ... you'd have to be mad to trust one of them.

What! Oh my, I take back everything constructive I might've said!

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