Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Building orbital installations while under blockade ?
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Mon, 22 June 2009 17:12   |
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 vonKreedon |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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IMO it depends on if you already have full defenses and if the blockading fleet has chaff. If there are chaff then you are better off hoarding minerals for rebuilding defenses once the bombers arrive. OTOH, if the fleet does not have chaff and you've built all the defenses and you have enough minerals on hand to build a SD or bigger with good missiles, then go ahead and build one and continue to damage the fleet.
Assuming that the blockading fleet has been damaged in taking your orbit, it is worth putting up an empty OF no matter what just to make the fleet engage in combat and not repairing itself.
[Updated on: Mon, 22 June 2009 17:13] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Mon, 22 June 2009 17:13 |
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| Mark Hewitt |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 105
Registered: June 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada | |
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There's other reasons for building an armed fort/dock that can be finished in 1 year to oppose a blocading enemy:
* if you have the resources and minerals and a starbase design slot, you can counter-design a fighting platform that will destroy some of the enemy ships, possibly helping an incoming friendly fleet this year or later;
* even if you don't have the design slot, a current design might do;
* even if you can't finishing it in 1 year, you may have more years with no bombers/freighters overhead;
* the enemy may move off and you are now farther ahead reestablishing this base;
* if the planet falls, you will use up minerals that your enemy could use against you;
* it keeps the world fighting; now the enemy has to considering more strategic factors, making it more complex and difficult;
* it makes you look like a tougher opponent; the enemy might put less effort into attacking you and put it towards other things.
What vonKreedon says applies too. If you're not going send in a relief fleet soon, defenses are better investment, as well as keeping enough minerals to rebuild them all. If you are sending in a relief fleet and the enemy fleet has chaff, you may be able to design a starbase to strip the chaff the year before.
[Updated on: Mon, 22 June 2009 17:22] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Mon, 22 June 2009 17:52 |
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It's certainly possible to build an orbital at any time. Whether it is practical is another matter.
The practicality depends on a number of factors:
1. Strength of the blockading fleet.
2. Ship mix in the blockading fleet
3. Does the blockading fleet have missiles & chaff?
4. Order of attractiveness re. the blockading ships.
5. BO used by the blockading ships (especially if your enemy likes to use "Minimise Damage to Self" - using that BO, ships do not attack bases.
etc.
The only way you can tell what you're likely to achieve is to simulate the battle.
Don't necessarily just build the strongest base possible. The base should be purpose built. eg. If the enemy fleet is mostly beamers then sappers & missiles might work - don't forget that some warships will become more attractive than chaff after they are sapped. Or maybe your enemy has chaff but not much of it so it might be better to build cheap torps (but strong enough to kill one chaff per shot if possible) to remove them first before building a stronger missile base.
Do not add components that will be wasted. eg. if the base will be destroyed in, say, battle round 2 regardless of how much armour or shielding you add then don't add any. If 10 sappers are enough to sap your enemy's beamers then don't add 16. Etc.
Of course you can build a stronger base by designing one that will take > 1 year.
If you have a closeby planet where you can build ships then think about sending in some sapper or chaff-burner ships but, like the base, if those ships are suicide ships for the purpose of softening up the enemy fleet, don't add components that will be wasted.
In case you're not well versed in Order of Events, ships are gated before bases (& ships) are built so it's not possible to gate ships into a gate the same year it is built.
If your testing shows that you cannot do anything much by building a base or series of bases then you might be better off building defences in preparation for the inevitable bomber &/or pop-dropping fleet that will turn up sooner or later.
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Mon, 22 June 2009 18:30 |
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One more point.
Having the right initiative can be critical. For example, If your enemy has missile BBs with 7 BSC your base will need to be a Space Station or better + enough computers to out-init the BB otherwise the BB will fire first. A Space Dock cannot out-init the BB because, even with the max. # BSC (5), the BB still has a higher init.
If you're sending in some sappers try to design the sapper & base as a pair. The sapper should fire before the missiles on your base &, of course, both should fire before the enemy ship. It might not always be possible but that is the ideal you want.
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Mon, 22 June 2009 18:32 |
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| vonKreedon |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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A nice posts by Alex, but there is one thing that I think is incorrect:
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(especially if your enemy likes to use "Minimise Damage to Self" - using that BO, ships do not attack bases.
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My painful memory is that instead of not attacking a base, a fleet with such BOs will forget that the base has a +1 range bonus, move into range and take damage, move out of range, forget that the base has a +1 range bonus, rinse and repeat.
[Updated on: Mon, 22 June 2009 18:33] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Mon, 22 June 2009 18:57 |
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| vonKreedon wrote on Mon, 22 June 2009 18:32 |
A nice posts by Alex, but there is one thing that I think is incorrect:
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(especially if your enemy likes to use "Minimise Damage to Self" - using that BO, ships do not attack bases.
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My painful memory is that instead of not attacking a base, a fleet with such BOs will forget that the base has a +1 range bonus, move into range and take damage, move out of range, forget that the base has a +1 range bonus, rinse and repeat.
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Yes, your right vonKreedon. The effect, however, is the same. I've never seen a fleet close in & attack a base where the fleet uses "Minimise Damage to Self".
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Sat, 27 June 2009 18:51 |
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Spacedocks are amazingly cost-effective, so I'll build them even knowing they'll be destroyed, since they're likely to take down enough enemy ships to outweigh their own expense. Even if they don't, a series of fighting spacedocks will discourage the enemy from splitting up his fleet and using it elsewhere, buying time to counterattack.
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Thu, 06 August 2009 00:01 |
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One key thing to bear in mind with throwing up orbitals is that when they die they drop NO salvage. So if your enemy is sure to conquer the world, then it's often wise to throw up a resource-cheap mineral-expensive orbital design *just* to chew minerals, as has been mentioned in this thread. Obviously if you can manage to soften up the enemy fleet a little that's a nice bonus.
A corollary to this, is that if you're sure you'll keep the world, but the attacking fleet will destroy your orbital in the fight, then you should only build an expensive armed orbital if it'll save nearly as much, or more, minerals than it cost you (in terms of your own ships dying in the battle to regain the world.) Which will probably be most of the time in early to mid game, unless you're sneaking in some really overwhelming firepower that your opponent hasn't seen 
[Updated on: Thu, 06 August 2009 00:03] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Thu, 06 August 2009 17:47 |
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| Coyote wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 18:51 |
Spacedocks are amazingly cost-effective, so I'll build them even knowing they'll be destroyed, since they're likely to take down enough enemy ships to outweigh their own expense. Even if they don't, a series of fighting spacedocks will discourage the enemy from splitting up his fleet and using it elsewhere, buying time to counterattack.
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Very true. But docks have limited use to fight.
If I want to waste minerals, or possibly in the very early game, I will build a dock.
If I want to down some fighting ships, or at least force him to bring and replenish chaff, then I will build a space station or UltraStation.
The problem with docks for shooting down ships, is they can't get enuf initiative. The dock has init 12, and the BB 10, but the dock has 3 less slots for computers (4 vs 7). Thus the BB will shoot 1st with 7 computers, or be tied with 6 and something else. To make sure it shoots before being shot at, the BB also has to have a move of at least 1.25, *or* a weapons range of 6.
Once we get to BSC, the problem only gets worse.
There may be some early BBs with slow engines, and range 5 missiles that would need a mj to get move 1.25, but this is generally a small window, and then you would only be tied and have a 50/50 chance to shoot 1st. To really fight mid-game missile ships and certainly nubians, with multiple slots of nexi, you need at least space stations and probably ultra stations. In fact, nubians can be equipped to always shoot 1st, if they have enuf slots of nexi. Battling that is a different story....
naz
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Fri, 07 August 2009 01:41 |
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Yeah... By the time you are facing capital ship missile equipped BBs, a dock isn't very significant in your fights. But then neither is a space station - except for killing 64 chaff. (I've been known to put up Delta torpedo space stations for this purpose. Much cheaper than jihads, for the same effect  )
Before battleships and/or jihads though, whipping up a dock can certainly turn the tide of a battle, for a minimal investment.
[Updated on: Fri, 07 August 2009 01:43] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Thu, 15 July 2010 16:46 |
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| ironhair |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 35
Registered: June 2010 | |
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Queue up a base that takes 2 years to build, while rebuilding your defences in case you are getting bombed. It will take you 3 years to finish building your base on a general while the defences save you from most of the bomb settings..
Use that time to stage a timed rendevous of other fleets to your planet.
I've built a orbital with 24 delta torps and got in beams that have the setting maximise damage ratio. The orbital clears out the chaff in peace while the beams + chaff go after the enemy fleet.
You've got to custom build the base seeing how many resources and what the enemy fleet is.
Ofcourse this works only in the starting bombing runs when it takes 3-5 years along with pop-drops to clear a planet.
ps - do note that if you do this in a 1:1 game, this will make the other player think you've used the empty starbase build bug, so do it only if you have an observer in the game. If you dont have an observer, be ready for the other guy to leave the game, thinking you've cheated :s
[Updated on: Thu, 15 July 2010 16:47] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Building orbital installations while under blockade ? |
Fri, 16 July 2010 11:04 |
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| vonKreedon |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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Dude - Yep, put up an OF with one weapon to force a battle and prevent the blockading force from repairing is and excellent play.
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Building orbital installations while under blockade ?
ALWAYS build a base. Waste in it every scrap of minerals and resources that you don't need for other things (Defenses, Research) 
