Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » terraforming yellows, choice on terraform?
terraforming yellows, choice on terraform? |
Fri, 27 March 2009 10:46 |
|
|
Two lines of questions:
1) In one game I am playing I own a small planet that is actually better for my ally than for me [because he has a Rad immunity]. If I terraform Grav it makes the planet better for me and worse for him. If I terraform Temp is makes the planet better for both of us. My Grav and Temp habs are identical. The planet is on the edge of my Grav, and about 4 click in on Temp. How do I determine what will be terraformed? Is there a way for me to terraform just Temp? [So that I can continue to make the planet better for him until he arrives with his pop...]
2) What does everyone else out there do for teraforming yellows? [I just got back into the game after being away for several years so I do not remember many of these details...] My memory is that a -1 to -3 is generally worth it, and fairly quick. I drop some pop and some Germ, and build factories until the resources are better than 100, then terraform one point per year. Is that the best way? Is it worth it to terraform worse yellow planets? How much pop is effective on yellow planets? [I am not obviously a CA and I do not have any immunities.]
Thanks for any help,
Raindancer
Report message to a moderator
|
|
| |
Re: terraforming yellows, choice on terraform? |
Fri, 27 March 2009 11:04 |
|
Micha | | | Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002 Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
|
Raindancer wrote on Fri, 27 March 2009 15:46 | 2) What does everyone else out there do for teraforming yellows? [I just got back into the game after being away for several years so I do not remember many of these details...] My memory is that a -1 to -3 is generally worth it, and fairly quick. I drop some pop and some Germ, and build factories until the resources are better than 100, then terraform one point per year. Is that the best way? Is it worth it to terraform worse yellow planets? How much pop is effective on yellow planets? [I am not obviously a CA and I do not have any immunities.]
|
First: red planet is treated as 5% when it comes to capacity of pop and number of factories/mines. (Note that for AR it is more, 15% IIRC.)
Effective number of pop is 150.000 (300%) (with OBRM 165.000). The first 50.000 (100%) produce full resources, for the second and third 50.000 the production is cut in half. Let's say pop resources is 1/1000 than you can get 55 + 27,5 + 27,5 = 110 resources on a red with max pop.
What to do with yellows ... depends ... if the game is going to last a long time you can start with planets that are -10% (or worse) as well, ... and let them sudder.
If they have good mineral concentrations you might build mines first else build factories and then terra when factories are running ...
There is another thread about this on what to do first: terra and than factories or the other way around ... More detail in that threat. A quick example: HP is better off building factories first.
mch
[Updated on: Fri, 27 March 2009 11:10] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: terraforming yellows, choice on terraform? |
Fri, 27 March 2009 15:16 |
|
|
Micha wrote on Fri, 27 March 2009 10:53 |
Raindancer wrote on Fri, 27 March 2009 15:46 | Two lines of questions:
1) In one game I am playing [...] My Grav and Temp habs are identical. The planet is on the edge of my Grav, and about 4 click in on Temp. How do I determine what will be terraformed? Is there a way for me to terraform just Temp? [So that I can continue to make the planet better for him until he arrives with his pop...]
|
You can't choose which band to terraform, IIRC Stars! picks the band in which you get the most return for your resources spend. IOW if you have wide grav and temp and a small rad the first terra will be done in rad since with a small band you are likely to get 2% for 1 terra in your queue ... while with wide habs you might need 2 terra to improve the planet by 1% ...
|
And if they are identical what is the next factor to determine which is picked?
Raindancer
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: terraforming yellows, choice on terraform? |
Fri, 27 March 2009 16:35 |
|
|
Micha wrote on Fri, 27 March 2009 11:04 | First: red planet is treated as 5% when it comes to capacity of pop and number of factories/mines.
Effective number of pop is 150.000 (300%) (with OBRM 165.000). The first 50.000 (100%) produce full resources, for the second and third 50.000 the production is cut in half. Let's say pop resources is 1/1000 than you can get 55 + 27,5 + 27,5 = 110 resources on a red with max pop.
|
And yellows and small greens (less than 5%) are the same as reds, correct? All are treated as 5% for colonists and mines/factories? (Except of course that the rate of pop death varies for these...)
So on any of these I can put up to 165K pop (OBRM, non-Joat) and have it effective and partially effective.
It seems to me that it would be most effective to drop 55K per planet (building factories and mines and terraforming, in whatever order I think is best), and use the rest of the pop on Resource worlds (those in the 20-80% range) until such time as the resource worlds are full, then work on filling yellows and reds for some extra resources and minerals.
Thank you for the data.
Raindancer
Report message to a moderator
|
|
| | |
Re: terraforming yellows, choice on terraform? |
Thu, 02 April 2009 10:28 |
|
m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
|
Raindancer wrote on Fri, 27 March 2009 21:35 | It seems to me that it would be most effective to drop 55K per planet (building factories and mines and terraforming, in whatever order I think is best), and use the rest of the pop on Resource worlds (those in the 20-80% range) until such time as the resource worlds are full, then work on filling yellows and reds for some extra resources and minerals.
|
Yes, but no.
You need to transfer pop to low-growth worlds unless you want to wait forever for them to develop themselves.
That pop will come from high-value worlds (breeders) when they are around 33% full. 55k on a yellow would be a good start. Tactic and economic reasons make higher pops desirable. 100k would be good enough, but as long as there's breeders nearby growing lots of pop (35-55k per turn) you can keep them growing at maximum by offloading excess pop to low-value planets that would grow their own pop much more slowly.
Then, when the yellows finally go green (twice as fast with 100k pop than with 50k) they'll already have a decent 100k pop ready for exponential grow.
Even then, you should be offloading pop from breeders to the smaller greens, and also to big worlds that have already built all the mines and facs that their pop can operate and where crowding has slowed breeding. And only when everything else is pretty much full should you allow the last breeders (usually the poorest in Germanium) to fill themselves.
As with everything else, practice these things in a testbed before trying them in a real game!
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: terraforming yellows, choice on terraform? |
Thu, 02 April 2009 12:32 |
|
|
m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 02 April 2009 10:28 |
Raindancer wrote on Fri, 27 March 2009 21:35 | It seems to me that it would be most effective to drop 55K per planet (building factories and mines and terraforming, in whatever order I think is best), and use the rest of the pop on Resource worlds (those in the 20-80% range) until such time as the resource worlds are full, then work on filling yellows and reds for some extra resources and minerals.
|
You need to transfer pop to low-growth worlds unless you want to wait forever for them to develop themselves.
|
Yes, and I do that with the 'better' yellow planets. Part of the original question was about the planets that are -4 or worse.
Quote: | That pop will come from high-value worlds (breeders) when they are around 33% full. 55k on a yellow would be a good start. Tactic and economic reasons make higher pops desirable. 100k would be good enough, but as long as there's breeders nearby growing lots of pop (35-55k per turn) you can keep them growing at maximum by offloading excess pop to low-value planets that would grow their own pop much more slowly.
|
I am very familiar with breeders and how to use those. That has always been one of my best skills. I had forgotten (over a number of years of not playing) about how to apply those to yellow planets. I can see on some yellows, for tactical reasons as you say, to keep 100K pop there.
Quote: | Then, when the yellows finally go green (twice as fast with 100k pop than with 50k) they'll already have a decent 100k pop ready for exponential grow.
|
Except that any pop over 55K only get half the resources (referencing posts above), so 100K pop is only (approximately) 1.5x better than 55K pop. So that pop will be more valuable on a resource world (any green world that is not a breeder) where it contributes full resources toward building more resources. Once the planet goes green then I will load a small green up to max pop.
Quote: | As with everything else, practice these things in a testbed before trying them in a real game!
|
I just do not have the patience (or time) to put all that level of detail in a testbed. It is much quicker and more interesting to discuss it here, and then others can learn about it as well.
Raindancer
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: terraforming yellows, choice on terraform? |
Thu, 02 April 2009 14:19 |
|
m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
|
Raindancer wrote on Thu, 02 April 2009 18:32 | Part of the original question was about the planets that are -4 or worse.
|
My personal preference for the races I've played lately, when the red/yellow in no worse than -9 and it has minerals or strategic interest, and there's a breeder with excess pop that has nowhere better to go, is to fill the red/yellow to 120k pop or more.
Quote: | Except that any pop over 55K only get half the resources (referencing posts above), so 100K pop is only (approximately) 1.5x better than 55K pop. So that pop will be more valuable on a resource world (any green world that is not a breeder) where it contributes full resources toward building more resources. Once the planet goes green then I will load a small green up to max pop.
|
But your task, should you choose to accept it, is not to maximize a few big greens, but to populate, develop and expand a sprawling galactic empire.
To that effect, as long as you offload less pop per year than the breeder is growing, the breeder itself won't suffer significantly, and the less fortunate planets will greatly appreciate the extra pop, be it at 100% or at 50% efficiency.
One rule of thumb for when to stop exporting pop is when all factories/mines that the breeder's pop can operate have already been built. That of course happens earlier for good "resource" planets than for Germ-poor worlds.
But even then, if you got places to fill and nowhere else to pull pop from, by all means, move that pop and keep the green worlds breeding.
Quote: | I just do not have the patience (or time) to put all that level of detail in a testbed. It is much quicker and more interesting to discuss it here, and then others can learn about it as well.
|
Much depends on particular race traits (growth, hab, mobility), and playstyle, and even game goals. After talking is done, you need a testbed or three. For example, read Cawley's Tutorial - How to get over 25k resources by 2450 and compare the theory with your practice.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
|
|
| | |
Re: terraforming yellows, choice on terraform? |
Fri, 10 April 2009 01:10 |
|
|
Now I know why playing against joseph is so tough....
Very nice guide. It is nice to have a good rule of thumb, and the maths behind it.
Note that joseph's values are only for fastest way to get green. It does not take into account how many factories you will have, and thus the benefit *after* you hit green.
Now for most planets, going green will allow for such a great immediate improvement, that going green asap is by far the most important consideration.
but for deeper yellows, that will only go to low grade greens, you may want to build max factories, and then do terraforming. The decrease in time to green is insignificant, yet the benefit of the extra factories on going green will be more significant (though not by that much).
Doing a present value of future free resources might prove this idea.
naz
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu May 30 08:04:34 EDT 2024
|