| Invisible Starbase |
Mon, 30 March 2009 16:27  |
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| PaulCr |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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I've come across something weird in the game I'm in, a player who I virtually killed off stopped submitting with a few planets left that I am now clearing, one of those planets is on the edge of my pen scan range and he has ISB so my scanners can't see it's Spacedock but I know it's there since I sent one of the FFs I was using to sweep the mines around it in and it was destroyed in a battle with it, the starbase only showed up in the battle report, when clicking the planet it didn't show up though even though it was not destroyed, that seemed weird enough but for this turn I sent another FF with none/none/disengage orders so it wouldn't be destroyed by the starbase but even though the ship is orbiting the planet the starbase is still not showing up.
Unless I have completely missed something then if there is a ship in orbit it should always show the starbase so I'm very confused as to where it's disappeared to. Has anybody else ever seen it happen before or can come up with an explanation of why it isn't showing. No orders have been given so the base couldn't have been deleted, and it hasn't been destroyed. I'm sending armed ships with my bombers to take it out but if I hadn't already lost the previous FF I would have assumed there was none there and not bothered sending the armed ships which would have added 3 years to me taking the planet given I'd have had to gate some to the nearest planet and then there would have been a 2 year trip for them to then get there.
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| Re: Invisible Starbase |
Mon, 30 March 2009 21:37  |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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I've just got the new turn and the starbase appeared in the battle which confirms that it has always been there but was not showing in my scans despite having a fleet in orbit.
I've just done a testbed and the same thing occurs, basically I did a modified humanoid to have ISB, created a 2 player game with them in and then move the initial armed scouts about 28 years from the opponents HW which would have the HW in range but would not see the starbase due to ISB cloaking, the remaining fleets for race 1 were scrapped.
I had each race research construction and created a privateer with an xray and left player one with default battle order and gave player 2 None/None/Disengage/Neutrals & enemies battle orders. Each privateer was then sent to the opponents HW, the first with default battle orders fought against player 2 and was destroyed.
The second with disengagae orders just sat at the opponents HW without a battle since it had orders without any targets and there were no enemy ships present to initiate a battle. Looking at both turns showed that there was no starbase in orbit, I could make the files available but it should be easy enough for others to be able to recreate themselves.
It seems that the planet report is coming from the pen scanners only, presumably on the basis they show planet stats with the fleet in orbit that doesn't have a scanner but can see the starbase being ignored. It is something to be aware of, it has probably happened in the past but most people didn't notice it or assumed the starbase was built that turn.
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| Re: Invisible Starbase |
Mon, 30 March 2009 21:46 |
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this could be related to the "ISB trumps IT gate scanning" bug
perhaps its really "ISB trumps non-scanner scanning" 
[Updated on: Mon, 30 March 2009 21:47] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Invisible Starbase |
Tue, 31 March 2009 11:33 |
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| PaulCr wrote on Tue, 31 March 2009 03:37 |
It seems that the planet report is coming from the pen scanners only,
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I've had similar experiences.
But I wouldn't say that the pen scan reports are the only ones but probably the last ones coming in and overwriting all other infos.
| gible wrote on Tue, 31 March 2009 03:46 |
this could be related to the "ISB trumps IT gate scanning" bug
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Mmmh, does the sanning bug only apply to ISB stations or to cloaked standard stations as well?
[Updated on: Tue, 31 March 2009 11:34] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Invisible Starbase |
Fri, 03 April 2009 10:36 |
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A few things... things - with a none/none disengage, there will be no battle with the starbase since the starbase will only join a battle when attacked.
2nd All starbases are cloaked - so unless your penn scan is near enough to the planet, you won't see it.
3rd - you don't know what the guy left in the build queue - if he left orbitals in the build queue they will be built even though he isn't submitting turns. It's something I would be likely to do just to eat up the mined minerals.
Hope this helps....
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Invisible Starbase |
Fri, 03 April 2009 11:13 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
|
Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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| Ptolemy wrote on Fri, 03 April 2009 15:36 |
A few things... things - with a none/none disengage, there will be no battle with the starbase since the starbase will only join a battle when attacked.
2nd All starbases are cloaked - so unless your penn scan is near enough to the planet, you won't see it.
3rd - you don't know what the guy left in the build queue - if he left orbitals in the build queue they will be built even though he isn't submitting turns. It's something I would be likely to do just to eat up the mined minerals.
Hope this helps....
Ptolemy
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I know none/none/disengage orders won't cause a battle that is why I used them so the ship would remain in orbit and be able to see the base, the turn before I did send one in with default orders and that did attack which confirmed the base was there.
Only ISB, SS and bases with cloaks on are cloaked, this one was on the edge of my penscanners so they wouldn't see it due to ISB cloaking but I expected the ship in orbit to do so since they normally do, I normally play NAS races and I usually put a ship in orbit to see what is there without any problems, this feature is yet another reason for me to keep taking it given it only happens with penscanning, If I had gone straight in with None/None/Disengage orders instead of the earlier one with default battle order I would never have known it was there and would not have bothered bringing armed ships which would have waste at least 3 years.
The Build queue had been empty for years, as mentioned I saw the starbase the previous year in a fight and it was impossible for it to have been destroyed, even if he had had a build starbase order in the queue it would only replace the existing one I knew should be there and the ship in orbit should be able to see it.
As mentioned above I have been able to replicate the problem easily in a testbed, and regardless of whether the ship you send into orbit gets destroyed or not you can't see the starbase. I've not tested it but I suspect the same would happen for cloaked ships, could be pretty nasty if you send a scout to somebodies planet to see what is there before attacking but don't see the big armada of cloaked ships because their battle orders had been changed to not attack the scout and the planet happened to be in range of one of your penscanners. I'm definitely going to be sending armed ships with attack orders to any planet in range of a pen scanner in future when pinging to make sure I don't get cought out with it in a situation where it would actually matter.
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| Re: Invisible Starbase |
Sun, 05 April 2009 16:41 |
|
 joseph |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol | |
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It may sound like a daft question, but does the second FF (the one in orbit, that isnt destroyed) have any form of scanner itself?
Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"Report message to a moderator
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