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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Sun, 17 July 2005 20:45   |
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 crr65536 |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005 | |
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I don't need response posts about the 2 scanners - do what you want with your designs - these are simply the maximum overcloaker designs possible.
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I don't understand what you're saying here. If you're saying that you don't want people saying the scanners aren't cost-efficient, fine, but for the maximum Galleon overcloaker Rhino (or Gazelle) scanners weigh more.
For NAS elephant scanners weigh an amazing 6kT which would be the most.
[Edit - added Elephant scanners for NAS]
[Updated on: Sun, 17 July 2005 20:47] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Fri, 05 August 2005 04:47 |
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Sorry for digressing, but is there a way to check how much overall cloaking your fleet gets when u add your overcloaker into it without doing all the manual calculations?
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Fri, 05 August 2005 08:46 |
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For OC testing I usually build the OC's I want to test and test them with a fleet of freighters, You can figureout the exact weight breakpoints for the % cloaked you want by varying the mineral quantities loaded.
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Tue, 27 June 2006 13:53 |
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| Quote: |
Sorry for digressing, but is there a way to check how much overall cloaking your fleet gets when u add your overcloaker into it without doing all the manual calculations?
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Yes, if you have already built your overcloaker(s), simply add them to the fleet you wish to cloak. The fleet composition display will show how much percent cloaked the entire fleet is.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Rogue overcloakers |
Tue, 22 January 2008 07:50 |
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| Soobie |
 | Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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I think the SS overcloak designs listed have had the cloaking units listed as if the ship was made by an SS but then transferred to a non-SS?
The ever trusty Posey's Spreadsheet seems to be telling me that the OCs would have slightly more cloaking units in the hands of it's SS maker?
Appreciating there are literally hundreds of different designs for different purposes, I did notice for the Metamorph OC that if you put on an extra super stealth cloak in the front slot instead of a tritanium then the fleet gets better a slightly better cloaking % up to ~1.5x the mass of the metamorph than you do going simply for max cloaking units (eg: you can hold 98% cloak with a few extra scouts/a bit of cargo/etc).
Just an observation.
Cheers,
S.
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| Cloaking unit calculation |
Thu, 26 March 2009 13:19 |
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The Stars! help file contains the information in the guts section for the guts of cloaking.
Cloaking Device Cloak Units/kT Max Cloaking %
Transport Cloak* 300 75
Stealth Cloak 70 35
Super-Stealth Cloak 140 55
Ultra-Stealth Cloak* 540 85
Shadow Shield* 70 35
Depleted Neutronium Armor* 50 25
Chameleon Scanner* 40 20
Cloaking is calculated using the number of cloak units devices provide per kiloton then multiplying by the ship weight. Once you have the total number of cloaking units for the empty ship, then you divide that by the actual weight of the ship with cargo to get the cloaking units per kt for the loaded ship. Uncloaked ships in the same fleet as cloaked ships count as cargo. There is a graph in the help file that shows what the cloaking % will be with the calculated cloaking units per kt.
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Thu, 05 May 2011 00:42 |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 16:23 |
When seeing these numbers, I can't help but think a better candidate for "maximum" would be (cloak units - 1680 x weight). After all, it's not much use having more cloaking units if they're all used to cloak the vessel itself.
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The point of overcloaking is to cloakother ships. Cloaking is a fleet thing, and each ship in the fleet contributes to the over all cloaking (or not). Thus a dedicated overcloaker ship design can be used to free up slots on other designs and still have them at the maximum 98%(or less of you wish) cloaked.
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Thu, 05 May 2011 13:17 |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 18:26 |
| gible wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 14:42 |
| magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 05 May 2011 16:23 |
When seeing these numbers, I can't help but think a better candidate for "maximum" would be (cloak units - 1680 x weight). After all, it's not much use having more cloaking units if they're all used to cloak the vessel itself.
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The point of overcloaking is to cloakother ships. Cloaking is a fleet thing, and each ship in the fleet contributes to the over all cloaking (or not). Thus a dedicated overcloaker ship design can be used to free up slots on other designs and still have them at the maximum 98%(or less of you wish) cloaked.
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That's exactly what I'm saying. The way to select "best overcloaker" shouldn't be "amount of cloak units generated", it should be "amount of cloak units generated - amount of cloak units needed to cloak itself to 98%", since that's the amount of available overcloaking capacity it has.
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Wait.. I agree with 98% being the limit, as in a overcloaker is limited to 98% cloak (because anything that cloaks it more than 98% is wasted/limited to 98%) after which it's just the mass that counts to the amount of overcloaking units it generates.
What I didn't understand was .... hmm... isn't that what you said?
Hmm... so this means that overcloakers can rarely, if ever cloak a fleet to 98%?
err.. let me clarify, mathematically, the overcloakers will make the fleet reach close to 98% (97.999999%), but never 98%.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Thu, 05 May 2011 20:55 |
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| magic9mushroom |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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| nmid wrote on Fri, 06 May 2011 03:17 |
Wait.. I agree with 98% being the limit, as in a overcloaker is limited to 98% cloak (because anything that cloaks it more than 98% is wasted/limited to 98%) after which it's just the mass that counts to the amount of overcloaking units it generates.
What I didn't understand was .... hmm... isn't that what you said?
Hmm... so this means that overcloakers can rarely, if ever cloak a fleet to 98%?
err.. let me clarify, mathematically, the overcloakers will make the fleet reach close to 98% (97.999999%), but never 98%.
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No.
An overcloaker generally has more cloak units/kT than the 1680 required to reach 98% cloaking.
This means that when merged with other ships, there can still be enough cloak units to cloak other ships.
For instance, it takes 12 SSCs to fully cloak a Nubian. Any more than that is wasted... as long as the ships aren't merged with something else.
If you use 15 SSCs, though, you can add some uncloaked ships, or load cargo, without going below 1680 cloak units/kT and losing your 98% cloak. This is the whole point of overcloakers - they are literally overcloaked.
What I'm saying is that in determining "max overcloaking", one should count the amount of "spare" cloak units (ie, the amount over 1680/kT), not the total. After all, it's the "spare" cloak units that determine how much fleet mass it can overcloak.
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Thu, 05 May 2011 22:19 |
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My brain was on a fritz yesterday, dunno what I posted in reply to shroom's post.
I'm going to reread it and try figuring out what I was thinking in the 1st place... :s
As for the cap being applied after the cloak, that's good to know.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Fri, 06 May 2011 04:11 |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 06 May 2011 00:56 |
That's exactly what I'm saying. The way to select "best overcloaker" shouldn't be "amount of cloak units generated", it should be "amount of cloak units generated - amount of cloak units needed to cloak itself to 98%", since that's the amount of available overcloaking capacity it has.
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Yeah..that's what I figured you meant right after I clicked submit but my brain still isn't alive enough to do the math.
Somewhere in there the simple subtraction needs to be complicated by different hulls etc tho surely.
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| Re: Overcloaking (Overcloaker) FYI |
Sun, 08 May 2011 04:14 |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 08 May 2011 17:36 |
| gible wrote on Fri, 06 May 2011 18:11 |
Somewhere in there the simple subtraction needs to be complicated by different hulls etc tho surely.
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Why?
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Because Stars! formulae are never that simple?
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