| sapper chaff |
Mon, 09 March 2009 08:03  |
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is there any way to create sapper chaff? maybe frigates with x-ray las mole shld can use as crash sweepers?
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| Re: sapper chaff |
Mon, 09 March 2009 11:05  |
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the reason I ask is to try to put missle chaff/sapper chaff/sweeping small minefields together in 1 ship slot.
sapper chaff would be very valuable if you were playing with rs and opponents knew and gameplanned for it.
I guess you are right this would not work for minesweeping.
do you think the extra res and min is worth combining 2 ship slots to 1?
are there any tools available to do quick calcs without going in game?
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| Re: sapper chaff |
Mon, 09 March 2009 11:27 |
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| PaulCr |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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It's possible that he means he wants something that the enemy sappers will target instead of his main fleet but that are still cheap enough that they can be used to chaff sweep minefields. Kind of like normal chaff but for sappers rather than missiles.
To be useful though they'd need to get in range of the enemy sappers at the same time as your main fleet which takes decent engines and they need to be more attractive than the main fleet which tends to make them quite a bit more expensive then regular chaff, just adding the shield to regular chaff makes it less attractive to missiles so just doing that may stop them acting as chaff completely.
I've certainly created designs deliberately to be fired at by my enemy to free another fleet to do the damage although they've never been anywhere near close to being inexpensive enough to be considered chaff.
The easiest way to check the attractiveness of various designs is to use starscalc.
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| Re: sapper chaff |
Mon, 09 March 2009 11:52 |
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I actually trying to save ship slots and come up with a combo out of the 3 types listed in first post.
I guess it would be too exp to combine reg chaff with either 2.
I guess the problem with shield chaff is that it would have to multi-function and have engs of mainline fleet.
all of this makes it very exp but would it be worth it for an enemy that gameplanned against rs.
ie making support frigate designs with only sappers?
if combined with sweeper capability would this design be good for a slot starved empire?
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| Re: sapper chaff |
Mon, 09 March 2009 15:12 |
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to put my question in simpler terms your race has as a lrt rs.
the enemy knows this so they create sapper frigates to support beam/missle ships.
you are slot starved race and need a sweeper design but would also like to have sapper chaff in same design to protect cruisers.
is this possible to do with frigate hull?
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| Re: sapper chaff |
Mon, 09 March 2009 15:25 |
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| DaYng1 wrote on Mon, 09 March 2009 20:12 |
you are slot starved race and need a sweeper design but would also like to have sapper chaff in same design to protect cruisers.
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You want the enemy sapper ships target your "sapper chaff", correct? At the same time you want to use this "sapper chaff" as a minesweeper which means it should have lasers.
Mmmh, for this to solve one would need to know how the sapper target system works. Which ships with shields are targetted first by sappers...
Does anybody know?
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| Re: sapper chaff |
Mon, 09 March 2009 15:56 |
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iirc he issue with shielded chaff was that the shields made them less attractive, sometimes to the point of being less attractive than your mainline ships. The way to fix this was to pre-damage your shielded chaff to reduce their armor value through very careful allied battles or overgating. ofc IT has the advantage there by not losing ships to the void.
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| Re: sapper chaff |
Tue, 10 March 2009 04:04 |
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 iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| DaYng1 wrote on Mon, 09 March 2009 20:12 |
you are slot starved race and need a sweeper design but would also like to have sapper chaff in same design to protect cruisers.
is this possible to do with frigate hull?
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No, because the FF has only one "general" slot. You can't put in it sappers AND lasers. The closest hull for dual role would be the DD hull, but it has too much armor and is too expensive to be used as a chaff. BTW this early it the game one usually has lots of early freighter and colonizer designs. So "slot-starved" can be easily resolved by scrapping some of them. If you're still slot-starved, you need to change the way you play.
| Quote: |
would also like to have sapper chaff in same design to protect cruisers
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The cost of chaff for protecting CCs is way to high compared to just building more CCs. That cost breaks about even with Jugg BBs. Earlier than that you just build more ships, esp. because chaff can be gated to the front (hence built reactively), but the heavy warships can't.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Tue, 10 March 2009 04:17] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: sapper chaff |
Tue, 10 March 2009 13:48 |
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I see your point. dd's do cost to much ironium to be used.
I thought maybe that enemy sapper frigate would hit my frigate sweepers if they were shielded/gatling.
this would minimize missle d to my cc's. I will use stars attractiveness calc and see if this is possible.
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The low cost of an additional sapper slot on the warship also negates any gain you'd get with sapper chaff (if it would work at all). 
