Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Anti Matter Torp
| Anti Matter Torp |
Mon, 03 March 2003 05:51  |
|
|
|
I just read the torpedo table again due to Freakboys thread and saw the Antimatter Torp there. Nice stats. very cheap. but Bio 21!?! Has anyone ever actually bothered with it? was it worth it?
Did you have TT as well?
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Mon, 03 March 2003 08:11  |
|
| Micha | 
 | |
Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
|
| gible wrote on Mon, 03 March 2003 11:51 |
I just read the torpedo table again due to Freakboys thread and saw the Antimatter Torp there. Nice stats. very cheap. but Bio 21!?! Has anyone ever actually bothered with it? was it worth it?
Did you have TT as well?
|
There has already been a lot of discussion about this subject (like any other Stars! subject  ). Basicly again: depends on the situation, or better said: if you get it from the MT you wish he gave something else, if you "need" it you can count on not getting it! 
Never seen it actually used in a game before, but this also of course depends on what the MT is giving out ...
I got it twice myself, one game had a set end-date of 2480 and CAs were banned so nobody would ever get that high bio tech in time. The other game I can't remember exactly, it lasted longer but the AMT wasn't usefull in that game either ... (if he never gave it to anyone than nobody will use it of course).
The only situation I can see in which it has the most chance to be usefull is to trade the bio tech to your allies if there is nothing left to trade, it will give you some reduced costs in your tech0 items (since bio is usually the lowest level),
regards,
mch
[Updated on: Mon, 03 March 2003 08:12] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Mon, 03 March 2003 11:07 |
|
 yucaf |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 100
Registered: December 2002
Location: India | |
|
| Micha wrote on Mon, 03 March 2003 08:11 |
There has already been a lot of discussion about this subject (like any other Stars! subject ). Basicly again: depends on the situation, or better said: if you get it from the MT you wish he gave something else, if you "need" it you can count on not getting it!
Never seen it actually used in a game before, but this also of course depends on what the MT is giving out ...
|
Agree with you. I have read a lot of discussions about this, and have never used it in a game. In all cases, the conclusion was the same: useless. 
Maybe in a full-tech game with all the MT items available this thing might be considered for anti-chaff, but then again, maybe not.
FWIW,
YucaF
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Tue, 04 March 2003 06:39 |
|
|
|
| yucaf wrote on Mon, 03 March 2003 11:07 |
Maybe in a full-tech game with all the MT items available this thing might be considered for anti-chaff, but then again, maybe not.
|
Saw it fielded at the tail-end of an XDude monster game (AFON1). The "good guy" alliance was scraping bottom in terms of minerals, and at least my race was fielding a group of AMT Nubes for purposes of chaff-killing/knocking down DS of the AR "Enemy" race.
I think Xdude fielded them in another max-tech game as chaff-killers as well. Playing to the weapon's limited strengths.
- Kurt
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.
- Groucho MarxReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Tue, 04 March 2003 20:36 |
|
|
|
ah yes... The point I'd forgotten was it being an MT item. Most of them aren't docoed in the actual help file.
me goes hunting for more.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Fri, 07 March 2003 21:26 |
|
| yucaf |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 100
Registered: December 2002
Location: India | |
|
| Marduk wrote on Fri, 07 March 2003 17:34 |
In Wheel of Life II, still ongoing, one team is using the AM torp on chaff. It's an interesting idea, but I don't recall any of them ever getting a shot off before they were destroyed - and I've seen as many as around 500-600 at a battle. The costs are boggling, considering how useless the ships are.
|
Well, this has nothing to do with the torpedo itself. If they don't design the ships so they have enough initiative to fire first and kill the chaff BEFORE your own missiles fire, then it's a ship / fleet design problem. Inherent capacity of the AM torpedo as anti-chaff is not sustained nor negated by this demonstration.
If it's used as anti-chaff, I doubt I would have it as a suicide fleet (kill the chaff then be killed): OK it's cheap, but not as cheap as chaff just as to have them as "use once and discard". Or maybe it is a cheap design, so that's why they are useless? 
YucaF
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Sat, 08 March 2003 15:45 |
|
| Marduk |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 345
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dayton, OH | |
|
Well, yucaf, one of the original questions was had it ever been used in a game. That's what I was answering.
Honestly, I can't see why anybody would seriously consider this missile. Only the Alpha thru Epsilon torpedoes are more expensive in terms of damage for the cost, and with miniaturization even they might be cheaper. The weight is nice for use in chaff-killers - but the whole point of chaff is to attract missiles. If you want to kill chaff, use beams... instead of your AM torp battleship killing 20 chaff, your Disruptor armed battleship will kill over 200, and be lighter and cheaper.
One AM torp costs more than the chaff it is killing, not counting the hull you have to mount it in. That's ridiculous... and they are virtually useless for fighting warships. Consider a base nubian hull, 5000 dp of armor. That's 84 hits you have to get, which typically means 100 launchers. Your cost just in launchers to kill an unarmored, unshielded, unjammed nubian hull is 300I, 800B, 100G, 5000 resources. To kill an empty BB is 34 hits, or 40 launchers. The cost: 120I, 320B, 40G, and 2000 resources, plus whatever the ship you put them in costs.
If you do not have TT, you'll generally have to get 14 more levels of bio tech than you normally would - that's so expensive that it adds significantly to the cost of each AM torp you make. If you want miniaturization, that's more levels of bio tech. With BET, miniaturization will top out at a 25% reduction; without it, the maximum is 20%. Even with BET, an ARM missile is far cheaper for the damage done. Heck, even an Omega torp is still cheaper and it would be double its normal cost.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | |
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Sat, 15 March 2003 18:39 |
|
|
|
Am using it in a game, kinda of a decent missile ship for gating around, helps Vs Iterstellar Traveller. I think its too high tech to make an effective front line ship though, its more of a skirmish end game boat.
Email me as ----jeffimix@----yahoo.com----
(remove dashes)
The spamatron! run!!!Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Mon, 17 March 2003 16:34 |
|
|
|
From everything I know about the AMT - it's good to slap on chaff cuz it's cheap.
I mean ok so chaff is supposed to die... that's its purpose. But AMT on chaff means that if some survives (which it should) they'll have a pop at those big missile ships.... they wont rip them up but it might help. I mean chaff aint gonna close to range 1 because beamers will tear them up... which brings me to the other advantage.....
They outrange beamers and as such will survive longer by being lighter (moving last) and stayin far (ish) away.
Now I haven't tested this personally (I don't research past 10 in bio tech at most) but I have been told it works and rocks.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Tue, 18 March 2003 23:42 |
|
|
|
I'd tend to think (and some limited testing seems to confirm) that building some dedicated anti-chaff vessels using as many AMT as possible with enough defense not to be more attractive than the chaff itself can knock out enemy chaff at an alarming rate, and give an otherwise equal force an edge, compared to having built the same value of chaff, as long as you still have significant chaff presence to keep the anti-chaffers from being wiped out before they can get a shot off. And as an additional perk, if the opponent is caught without chaff, these guys can lend a bit of a hand against main targets.
Don't get me wrong though, these guys still act as second-line chaff. Enemy missile boats will hit them first, before going after your own missile boats. This is alright though, since you aren't using them to replace mainline ships, but rather to replace some of your chaff.
I still haven't had time to test this very much though. It might not be worth the extra design slot after all.
The Dopelar Effect:
The tendancy for stupid ideas to seem more intelliegent when they come at you rapidly.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Fri, 21 March 2003 21:15 |
|
|
|
I am a little late jumping in here on this discussion, but I did use the AMT on nubians in a lategame setting. Mins were scarce, so as a lategame JOAT with plenty of resources, I built AMT Nubians.
I was able to stave off attacks until I has over 5000 or so.
Truely devasting, as the other player never knew what hit him.
Xdude
Dude!Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Fri, 04 April 2003 13:42 |
|
|
|
I can say that I, indirectly, had a good use for the AMT one time.
I was playing in a big game, and I was the first one to meet a particular MT. After I met the MT, I sent out a message (in-game) to all the other players, saying that I had the AMT, and that I would sell them the tech for less than the 5000 minerals the MT wanted.
Of course, no one took me up on the deal, and everyone avoided that particular MT.
The best part of course was that the MT was NOT carrying the AMT, it was giving away tech levels. 
BadBadDancer
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anti Matter Torp |
Thu, 17 April 2003 07:35 |
|
| iaznab |
 | Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 6
Registered: March 2003
Location: South Africa | |
|
Someone in one of my team games has used the AMT to scrap biotech for miniaturisation purposes for me, can't remember who. (Some TT CA)
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Tue May 14 12:09:07 EDT 2024
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
Just kidding Marduk. I'm making fun out of me 
