| The 2nd Diadochi War |
Tue, 26 August 2008 23:11  |
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My fingers are itching too much & all currently posted games seem to be in limbo so I'm announcing this game.
The original Diadochi Wars game was very enjoyable IMO but had a couple of weaknesses:
1. Starting positions played a bigger part than they should.
2. A mega-alliance (4 unpenalised races: JOAT, CA, AR, SD) consisted of #1,2,3 & 4 by the late middle game.
These weaknesses are remedied by:
1. Either ensuring that everyone has access to at least one neighbouring unoccupied city (see below for definition of a city).
2. (a) CA & JOAT still allowed but penalised.
(b) BACKSTAB RULE: Each year after 2440 a formula will be applies to determine whether or not a Backstab is required for each alliance. That formula is: ((a+b+c+alliance size)/4)% where a=6,b=4,c=2 if the player ranked #1,#2,#3 respectively is a member of the alliance & a,b,c are 0 respectively if not. The player to be backstabbed is the highest ranked player in the alliance. The player to undertake the backstab will be chosen randomly among the other alliance members. The backstabee will not be informed, the backstaber will be informed, may discuss the matter with others (except with the backstabee) & may, by mutual agreement, transfer the task to another member of the alliance. The backstab must be undertaken within 5 years of being informed that it is required - if this does not occur the designated backstaber will be banned for 5 turns & the fact will be announced. The backstab should be substantial & the backstabee & backstaber must be set to enemy for 10 years from the year of the backstab.
The formula will exclude player #3 if we get less than 11 players.
Note that alliances in the real Diadochi wars changed often so rule 2 (b) is actually very appropriate.
In 323BC Alexander The Great died and a power struggle ensued. The main protagonists were Alexander’s generals and administrators. This group of people became known as the Diadochi (Greek word meaning “successors”).
The first of 4 Diadochi wars lasted from 322-320BC. This game deals with the 2nd war which lasted from 319-317BC (west) & 319-315 (east).
Here's a little reading on it for you: http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diadochi/diadochi.htm
The universe will be shaped around part of the western Macedonian empire, namely: South-Eastern Turkey (Asia Minor), Syria & Egypt). This will be accomplished using a template (Map of the area) applied using Universe Creator. Planets will be highly clumped to represent cities though there will also be scattered planets representing islands & villages.
These are the templates for the universe:
To be used by Universe Creator: http://mcdonaldjk.fileave.com/Diadoch2.bmp
With City Names: http://mcdonaldjk.fileave.com/Dia2Anno.bmp
The templates apply to a 16-player game - if less players then cities will be removed so that cities/# players = 2.
City placements are close to reality in some cases but not all (gameplay takes precedence), indeed Cappodocia (region) & Euphrates (river) are not even cities.
Most of the original gen. parameters are of little consequence since the universe will be regened as above, but they are: Huge/Sparse/Distant (600 planets) if we have 14-16 races, less planets if less players.
Also:
BBS, No Random Events, Public Scores from 2480.
Slow Tech: No but open to suggestion.
Victory: By majority decision among active players (abstainees excluded). The game requires a single winner.
For the sake of historical flavour players should use race names that represent people who were involved in the Diadochi wars – see list at end of this post.
Special Conditions:
1. No dual HW PRTs (IT, PP). CAs must not take TT & must leave 250 RW points set to defences. JOATs must not take NAS & must leave 50 RW points set to defences.
2. Alliances limited to 4 members (can change alliances but if 4 members already must drop a current ally before introducing a new one).
3. BACKSTABBING RULE. See above (coloured orange).4. Only chaff & fleet splitting allowed – all other cheats/bugs are banned.
I intend to play myself but I NEED A NEUTRAL 3rd party to host, generate, adjust the universe and to move HWs to ensure as fair a go as possible (all tools & precise instructions provided).
ANYONE??
Turn Generation:
Daily until year 2430. After that, if any player wishes it, turns will be every 2-days.
Weekends: Majority decision. If no weekends & turns every 2-days, turns will be Mon,Wed,Fri.
A little more history:
The Diadochi are known by historians as the collective name of the successors of Alexander the Great.
Very briefly: Following Alexander's mysterious death, aged 33, in 323BC, the Diadochi divided up responsibility for the various parts of the Macedonian empire, the greatest ever know. Peace was, however, fleeting as most members of the Diadochi sought increased power.
The 1st of 4 Diadochi Wars erupted in 322BC and the last ended in 281BC. During that time almost all members of the Diadochi,, and many of their heirs, were assassinated,, killed in battle or executed.
The historic characters (races) available to play this game are:
Olympias. Alexander's mum. Killed her son so that grandson could rule. Executed 317BC.
Roxana. Alexander's #1 wife. Powerfull & ruthless. Executed 310BC.
Alexander IV – Son of Alexander/Roxana. Killed 310BC
Philip III (Arrhidaeus) – “Feeble-minded” brother of Alexander. Killed by Olympias . Unsure of year.
Cassander. Son of Antipater. Ruler of Macedonia & Greece, part. After 310BC. Died 298BC.
Antipater II – son of Cassander – co-ruled Macedonia. Expelled 294BC.
Alexander V – son of Cassander – co-ruled Macedonia. Killed 294BC.
Pleistarchus – brother of Cassander. Ruled Cilicia from 301BC – vanquished 299BC.
Polyperchon – Regent from 319BC. Fate Unknown.
Peucestas - Officer in Alexander's army. Satrap of Persis. A favourite of Demetrius - thought to have survived.
Phaleron (Demetrius of) – Governor of Athens from 317BC. Expelled 307BC.
Eumenes: Ruler of Cappadocia. General of Alexander, then Perdiccas, Polycheron - Killed 316BC.
Lysimachos. Ruler of Thrace & Central Asia Minor. Killed 281BC to end Diadochi wars
Antigonos “one-eyed” - Ruler of Phrygia and, later, half the empire. Very powerfull 316-305BC. Killed 301BC.
Demetrius "the beseiger". Son of Antigonos. Ruled various parts at various times. Controlled the Aegean sea. Died in prison 283BC.
Ptolemy: Ruler of Egypt (& Syria on & off) - Survived the wars!!
Ceraunus (Ptolemy). Disinherited Son of Ptolemy - Siezed Macedonia. Killed 279BC by Celts.
Alcetas: Ruler of Psidia. Fate unknown.
Pyrrhus – King of Epirus. Fate Unknown.
Cleitos. Commander of the Royal Fleet under Perdiccas but defected 321BC. Fate unknown.
Heracles. Son of Alexander & his concubine Barsine. In 323BC there was a dismissed suggestion of proclaiming him King. What if ...
Seleucos. Ruler of Persia + other areas at various times. Lost it to Antigonos & sought Ptolemy's protection. Retook Persia 305BC and established the Seleucid Empire. Assassinated 281BC.
You may research the subject yourself for others but I'd like you to at least stick to important Macedonians.
Some historians spell some of the names differently (eg. Kassandra)
AlexTheGreat
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 20:29] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Wed, 27 August 2008 12:22  |
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| Steve wrote on Wed, 27 August 2008 10:17 |
In another game I played in there was a rule that the 1st and 2nd ranked players must be enemies. The host announced this every 10 years.
Perhaps expand the rule to the top 4 players giving private notice to the players in reverse order.
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I'll consider that possibility. Since backstabbing is such a no-no I was actually thinking about a rule that requires it under certain conditions, possibly something that combines a random but increasing chance depending on alliance size - eg. if a 2-member alliance each member has a 0.5% chance per year of requiring a backstab within 5 years (1% chance each year that one or the other is affected), a 3-member alliance attracts a 0.75% chance (2.25% chance that at least one ally is affected) & a 4-member alliance a 1% chance (4% chance that at least one ally is affected).
The host would inform a player that the backstab is required but noone else would be told. Between being told that the player must do this & the backstab having been executed that player cannot discuss the matter with other players.
The problem is that the host would have to do rather more work than usual.
Whaddayareckon?
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It really should be a single winner game as theoretically all players are tying to become emperor. I'd think the only lackies should be in the bottom rankings.
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I agree. The original post is being modified so.
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With varied hab settings there are races with different habs that can intersettle making a more natural alliance. Since we are talking about a single race in historical sense, perhaps the habs should be set so intersettling is not so attractive.
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That's a thought too tho I'd rather not make it too uniform else race design might be badly impinged. Maybe require each hab range to be centred between clicks 40-60? Not sure about it tho - unless immunisations are banned reasonable intersettlement would still be possible.
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Wed, 27 August 2008 12:35 |
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| Micha wrote on Wed, 27 August 2008 10:38 |
Well ... I was actually interested in " GAME CONCEPT: Mauryan Campaign [Very Long]" Might be interested in this one instead.
One of my current games should end pretty soon and by the time this gets big my current workload should be reduced a lot ...
mch
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There was very little discussion in the bar about the Mauryan Campaign (thanks for your input tho, Micha) so I wasn't sure about the level of interest.
I also need to do some balancing tests & real life currently denies me sufficient time. I will, however, do that later on & will retest interest levels at that time.
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Mon, 01 September 2008 08:52 |
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| joseph wrote on Fri, 29 August 2008 07:17 |
My sugestion
Every 10 years the top 2 slots are announced (after say 2440?).
If the 2 top players are in the same alliance then ambition and paranoia start to play their part.
At any point in the next 5 years either player may break the alliance (say by launching huge attacks on the other).
This does not count as a backstab or breaking a treaty (it is both of course but in this game we are playing ruthlessly ambitious men).
If neither player breaks the alliance in the 5 years then on the 6th year diplomatic relations break down totally and all players in that alliance must choose one of the 2 top players (setting the other to enemy) OR break out on their own setting all other players in their alliance to neutral and being unable to re-ally with them for 4 years.
Players 1 and 2 can never form an alliance with each other.
(hum - reading it back it seems complicated, but I dont think it would be)
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Yeah, that's not bad at all. The only problem I have is that a backstab is not required so I think it's likely that one would not occur & that the alliance would merely break down.
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Mon, 01 September 2008 08:59 |
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The backstab rule is now defined. I welcome your comments tho.
Changes to the original post are coloured orange & the map templates are now created & available for your perusal.
Since Micha & Wizard have both expressed interest but need a month to free up some time I'm thinking that the game will start early in October assuming we have a minimum of 8 players by then.
Roll up, roll up!
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Mon, 01 September 2008 17:28 |
|
 joseph |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol | |
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Can I suggest that the backstabbed and backstabber both then become enemies for a minimum time. Otherwise you risk people backstabbing with a feather.
"Ah Ha - I backstabbed you by attacking 3 minimal worlds that were better for me than you and you would probably have given me anyway"... "Lets still be friends, here are 2 minimal worlds of mine that are better for you - just to seal the friendship, Ahhh lets never fight again"
Oh also "tools and precise instructions provided" - im fairly IT literate (although not an experienced host) so will give hosting a try if you want.
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 17:34]
Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Mon, 01 September 2008 20:33 |
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| joseph wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 17:28 |
Can I suggest that the backstabbed and backstabber both then become enemies for a minimum time. Otherwise you risk people backstabbing with a feather.
"Ah Ha - I backstabbed you by attacking 3 minimal worlds that were better for me than you and you would probably have given me anyway"... "Lets still be friends, here are 2 minimal worlds of mine that are better for you - just to seal the friendship, Ahhh lets never fight again"
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Good point. I've added that backstabee & backstaber must be set to enemy for 10 years.
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Oh also "tools and precise instructions provided" - im fairly IT literate (although not an experienced host) so will give hosting a try if you want.
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Excellent! I'm sure you'll make a fine host.
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Wed, 03 September 2008 19:19 |
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Player List so far:
1. Micha (probable)
2. Wizard (probable)
3. Shadow Whist
4. AlexTheGreat
5. Steve
6. neilhoward
7. Combat
[Updated on: Mon, 15 September 2008 23:37] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Thu, 04 September 2008 20:50 |
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| Steve wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 09:42 |
Add me to the list.
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Done. We now have 5 players.
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Mon, 08 September 2008 00:40 |
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| neilhoward wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 23:20 |
OOH!(rubbing hands together)
I would be honored to participate.
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np - you're on the list.
6 players now.
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Mon, 15 September 2008 23:42 |
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| Combat wrote on Mon, 15 September 2008 20:19 |
I would like to join this game if there is room, and when do you need the race file?
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Plenty of room - the game can accomodate 16 players & we now have 7 with you.
One or two players wanted a liitle time while current games wound down so we'll probably start around Oct 7. We won't need race files until around that time.
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Wed, 17 September 2008 14:22 |
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Hi,
Ok I am sufficiently intrigued enough to want to play. Please count me in.
Regards,
NeoGrendal
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| Re: The 2nd Diadochi War |
Wed, 17 September 2008 22:22 |
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| neogrendal wrote on Wed, 17 September 2008 14:22 |
Hi,
Ok I am sufficiently intrigued enough to want to play. Please count me in.
Regards,
NeoGrendal
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OK.
8 players now:
Player List so far:
1. Micha
2. Wizard (probable)
3. Shadow Whist
4. AlexTheGreat
5. Steve
6. neilhoward
7. Combat
8. NeoGrendal
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