| Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Sat, 12 July 2008 11:59  |
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 Combat |
 | Warrant Officer |
Messages: 118
Registered: May 2008 | |
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I am invisioning a game with slow tech and a large to huge map with clusters of planets(between 1 and 10) per cluster with large distances between them (to simulate solar systems with the huge span between stars in a galaxy and the various random habs cause by their position in orbit) with 30-50 planets per player. Either having a fairly even map so everone has a fair chance or a uneven map to encourage certain diplomatic behavior (like the two or three players that got screwed and banded together out of need or the small race that allied with its bigger neighbor because of that other big neighbor or even that poor enslaved race that secretly talks to his opressor's enemy in hopes of some day breaking the chains that bear him down) and yes I know it would be a very long game even with AccBBS but I think it would be a cool game and perhaps it would not be a game to necessarily ment to be won, just played. Perhaps I feel its just as much fun to play as it is to win. And please try to refrain from making me feel stupid i do that well enough on my own.
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Sat, 12 July 2008 12:10  |
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This definitely is not a bad concept. To set it up would take a little work but, it could be done without too much difficulty. Using a remapped large or huge sparse universe would be the best with 9 players for large and 12 - 14 for huge. Creating grouplings of planets is easy enough, and, for the initial setup, homeworlds would ahve to bew moved into the Solar Systems so that each player was in their own solar system.
I'd be inclined to play it even.
The game should probably ban CA races.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Sat, 12 July 2008 12:11]
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Sat, 12 July 2008 16:21 |
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I think "nerfing" for IT would not be enough... if they can attain the "any distance" gate at all they must be banned...
unless... the "any distance" gates are banned which would lead to administration problems possibly.
regards,
dj
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Sun, 13 July 2008 06:51 |
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I'd agree that CA would want to be nerfed a lot of points (300?) or just banned outright.
I'd agree that the IT inf range gates would be best banned outright. They'd still have the best gates, and they still have their superior overgating capacity AND they still have the ability to gate pop and minerals. They'll be very strong even without the unlimited range gates.
Maybe also the common 'ban JOAT from taking NAS'.
Besides that... Have a ball. Not all PRTs will be equal but the most severe imbalances in this environment will have been ripped away. AR and IT stand out in my mind, as well as 3i HE being even stronger than usual (if no one will have range to gate from cluster to cluster, HE won't miss it's gates.))
[Updated on: Sun, 13 July 2008 06:54] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Tue, 15 July 2008 03:26 |
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| Alter Ego |
 | Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 283
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany | |
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Hi!
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Ptolemy I am happy for your input but I kinda hoping for a no limits game and was going to try to make some kind of argument on behalf of keeping CA in the game but I simply know nothing of playing them outside of what Ive read and thats not much. So I can only say that hopefully diplomacy could be enough to check a monster CA and if there are many CA's that there might be multiple alliances with a CA in them...and if everyone but me is a CA well have a long game without much variety after im dead. 
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I agree with Ptolemy: the idea is really good. But I would advise you to listen to the various cautioning comments concerning CA, IT (and even JoaT). Given the settings of the universe, a CA will have time to use his innate advantages to the maximum before having to face an attack. The same goes for JoaTs.
And apart from the advantages already mentioned, an IT can make much better use of a lucky Wormhole than other races: Once he has established a small foothold in a far part of the universe, he doesn't have to rely on the WH holding long enough for him to entrench himself. You might want to consider unchecking the "Random Events"-box in the setup for this reason. MTs would then not enter the universe either, which would remove another element of chance likely to severely imbalance the game taken the distances into consideration.
Concerning races, you've put your finger right on the sore point in the quote above - stronger players will tend to go for CA, IT or JoaT because of the advantages mentioned. If you ban them, you'll see a lot more variety in races. On the other hand, it might be quite interesting to see players (or alliances) with these PRTs slugging it out.
Anyway: I'm interested...
Regards,
Alter Ego
War does not determine who is right. Just who is left.
Bertrand Russell
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Tue, 15 July 2008 08:25 |
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| Combat |
| Warrant Officer |
Messages: 118
Registered: May 2008 | |
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| Combat wrote on Sat, 12 July 2008 11:59 |
Either having a fairly even map so everone has a fair chance or a uneven map to encourage certain diplomatic behavior (like the two or three players that got screwed and banded together out of need or the small race that allied with its bigger neighbor because of that other big neighbor or even that poor enslaved race that secretly talks to his opressor's enemy in hopes of some day breaking the chains that bear him down).
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As you can see I have no problem with unbalanced games, the world is not fair so why should a stratgey game be. In my opinion chance is a big part of stratgey and warfare. Chance played a part in germany's defeat on the eastern front durring WW2 with a harsh russian winter. In normandy a storm diabled 2 huge dock like structures (I forgot what they were called) and threatend to choke off supplies to the allied advance. Luckly someone was smart enough to use the 2 damaged docks to make one working dock. So I stand by my desire for no limitations and I most definitely want random events on.
[Updated on: Tue, 15 July 2008 08:28]
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Tue, 15 July 2008 09:32 |
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| Effluviant Walrus |
 | Senior Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 91
Registered: May 2008
Location: New York, US | |
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Those are random events; CA and IT are assured advantages, not just chance. A good CA or IT in this game will wipe the floor with any other race. If you want to set up a "scenario" do that before the game starts. Then everyone knows who is playing the "monster" and can act appropriately.
But otherwise, why would a player purposefully play a sub-optimal race as limited (or not) by the rules? Sure, a group of weaker races could beat a CA or IT, but why should a player take that chance? Everyone will play CA or IT if only because they are afraid of everyone else playing CA or IT.
Also, an unbalanced setup without player knowledge beforehand increases the chance of things falling apart. Players will accuse the winner of "only winning because their CA/IT" or just drop out when it becomes clear they can't compete.
| Combat wrote on Tue, 15 July 2008 08:25 |
the world is not fair so why should a strategy game be.
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Because its not the world, its a strategy game. Its supposed to be based almost solely on player strategy, not who is willing to take an overpowered PRT.
P.S. The Russian winter owning the Germans in WWII was not chance. The Russian winter is always cold. Ask Napoleon.
[Updated on: Tue, 15 July 2008 09:38] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Tue, 15 July 2008 10:09 |
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| Alter Ego |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 283
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany | |
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| Effluviant Walrus wrote on Tue, 15 July 2008 15:32 |
SNIP
Also, an unbalanced setup without player knowledge beforehand increases the chance of things falling apart. Players will accuse the winner of "only winning because their CA/IT" or just drop out when it becomes clear they can't compete.
SNIP
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If you don't end up with a game consisting just of ITs and CAs(maybe with a few JoaTs thrown in), there is a very strong chance that the other races will start dropping out.
Nobody is trying to make you feel stupid - we all tend to be more or less so when it comes to Stars. One of the good things about this game is that you never stop learning. But with a couple of dozen games to look back on, certain trends do become visible. One of them is that CAs are at a very strong advantage in any game. This advantage grows with settings that give them a chance to develop in peace, the longer they remain unmolested, the harder they are to stop afterwards. ITs come in at second place for the PRT with an innate advantage - maybe sharing it with JoaTs - although they have to pay more for it in the Race Wizard. Your idea is really good, but it also serves to enlarge the advantages these races already have.
I can understand your not wanting to restrict or ban races, it is rather a pity that one hardly gets a chance to play CA or IT anymore. Maybe a solution would be that players have to indicate if they are playing one of these PRTs when they are stating their interest in the game. That way, the other players who are still thinking about joining and about the PRT they want to use, can base their decision on the opposition they're going to meet.
That said, I'm still interested.
And no, I would not like to go against CA, IT or JoaT without playing one of these PRTs myself. My suicidal tendencies are slightly underdeveloped.
Regards,
Alter Ego
War does not determine who is right. Just who is left.
Bertrand Russell
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Tue, 15 July 2008 12:34 |
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| Effluviant Walrus |
| Senior Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 91
Registered: May 2008
Location: New York, US | |
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Hmm, maybe everyone could be required to be IT, giving them gates, but any engine that travels faster than warp 7 or so with 100% fuel efficiency or better would be banned. It would simulate how slow even the most optimistic near-future RL spaceship propulsion systems are, but how once a colony fleet arrives, they can expand the gate network to integrate the new system into the empire.
"Thus spake the master programmer:
`When the program is being tested, it is too late to make design changes.'"
"In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better."Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Tue, 15 July 2008 12:43 |
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Well, given the poster was talking about wanting to see variety... Forcing everyone to one PRT sounds counter productive. It would be more in keeping to penalise some of the PRTs that are considered to be overpowered in this type of scenario.
But your idea is interesting in it's own right.
[Updated on: Tue, 15 July 2008 12:44] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Game Concept: Solar Systems (Would Be Long Game) |
Tue, 15 July 2008 15:09 |
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| Combat |
| Warrant Officer |
Messages: 118
Registered: May 2008 | |
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| Quote: |
P.S. The Russian winter owning the Germans in WWII was not chance. The Russian winter is always cold. Ask Napoleon.
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Well in truth the first mistake was actually expecting russia to fall before winter and secondly when it became odvious that would not happen someone droped the ball and did not issue proper winter gear but now im just correcting myself.
{Mod edit: fixed quote}
[Updated on: Mon, 28 July 2008 09:33] by Moderator
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you.Report message to a moderator
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