Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Mon, 16 June 2008 06:50 |
|
|
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 22:07 | Expensive and not particularly good for heavy DNs that need to plow through minefields.
|
WTF? I think you have this backwards, NRSE is a RW points mine, and ramscoops engines take more damage from minesfields.
I think you meant to say always take NRSE
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Mon, 16 June 2008 07:21 |
|
Micha | | | Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002 Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
|
gible wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 12:50 |
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 22:07 | Expensive and not particularly good for heavy DNs that need to plow through minefields.
|
WTF? I think you have this backwards, NRSE is a RW points mine, and ramscoops engines take more damage from minesfields.
I think you meant to say always take NRSE
|
Exactly.
As WM I'd take NRSE and prop expensive and as said never use the IS-10 but the FM instead. Well, I *would* use the IS-10 on my smaller fleet of arma DNs since they need it for movement and they're a bit too precious to blow them up going warp10.
Also saves you the research after prop12 (until you *really* want terra at prop16), and having expensive prop hurts less since with the WM bonus you can use the lesser engines on your ships. Last game as WM I used DDL7's for my (interim) BBs, as non-WM I'd normally use the AD8.
Still, keeping rams fits in with the WM speed bonus as well, since the ramscoop engines are always one step behind their NRSE at same tech level. However I'd prefer the RW points and stopping prop research at 12 for a long time.
Heh, if you're lucky your SD enemy next door will mount the prop16 ramscoop on his MMLs. Happy hunting!
mch
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Mon, 16 June 2008 08:05 |
|
magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
|
gible wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 20:50 |
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 22:07 | Expensive and not particularly good for heavy DNs that need to plow through minefields.
|
WTF? I think you have this backwards, NRSE is a RW points mine, and ramscoops engines take more damage from minesfields.
I think you meant to say always take NRSE
|
The IS-10, TGD, and AD8 are expensive. I did not mean that it wasn't a point mine, though CE is a bigger one. And though ramscoops take more damage, SFXs do not like minefields one bit. 8500+ armor DNs with shielding can afford the damage, SFXs cannot.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Mon, 16 June 2008 09:59 |
|
|
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 08:05 | The IS-10, TGD, and AD8 are expensive. I did not mean that it wasn't a point mine, though CE is a bigger one. And though ramscoops take more damage, SFXs do not like minefields one bit. 8500+ armor DNs with shielding can afford the damage, SFXs cannot.
|
If you're going to use ramscoops why not leave out IFE? That way you can also leave out CE & you still have more RW points. From your earlier posts it's clear that you like CE but I don't understand why - IMO it's the worst bargain in Stars.
FM is certainly useful but you'll need Prop std or cheap to get good ramscoop engines by the mid-game so you can have Radrams fairly early. Sure you lose pop when using Ramscoops but it's not a huge problem - you lose none if you take rad immune or, failing that, you can right-shift your rad hab range to reduce the effect especially if you make it narrow (the higher the rad centre is the less pop you lose thru radiation).
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Tue, 17 June 2008 07:08 |
|
Soobie | | Officer Cadet 3rd Year | Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007 Location: Australia | |
|
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 19:37 | Expensive and not particularly good for heavy DNs that need to plow through minefields.
|
Interesting. Almost more than any other PRT I would say that WM enjoy the most benefit from the IFE/NRSE combo.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Tue, 17 June 2008 21:10 |
|
mlaub | | Lieutenant | Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003 Location: MN, USA | |
|
magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 15 June 2008 00:55 | Gates are not around when you're on the offense. Guess what you want to be doing as a WM?
|
If that is the case, you are doing it wrong. In any successful push, you should have enough pop and metal to insta gate a planet the next turn. While the WM has to slog through normal space with it's DN's, the nub race is gating in reinforcements to its freshly conquered worlds.
I even use red worlds if necessary, although that takes a few years unless it was an enemy planet and had enough left over fact...
Quote: | Also, WHAT EXPENSE IN IRON? DNs are much, much cheaper per torp than Nubs.
|
He might have meant that a nub building race will be building out his metal more evenly. Or, he could be saying you can build 2:1 nubs vs DN's This may be true, depends on designs.
WM's DN's are by far the best missile platform in the game, apples to apples. However, one thing that is tough to calculate is mobility. I'll take mobility every time.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Wed, 18 June 2008 07:58 |
|
Soobie | | Officer Cadet 3rd Year | Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007 Location: Australia | |
|
magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 11:56 | WHAT??? you get 30% more BCs if you're using ramscoops.
|
errr .... under what circumstances? How are you plucking these numbers?
I'm loving this thread. I haven't had this good a laugh over stars for a while.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Thu, 19 June 2008 05:26 |
|
magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
|
BCs will always be over 140kT, so they will have a base speed of 0.75 for warp 6 engines (like the FM), 1 for warp 7 engines (like the DLL7), 1.25 for warp 8 engines (like the TGFS and AD8), and 1.5 for warp 9s (like the TGD and TGSS). Now, with the WM bonus, that means you need three jets on a DLL7 ship, and four on a FM ship, but only two on a TGFS ship, to get 2.25 speed. You want this because it's extremely useful against torp BBs, as well as for kiting. And with more jets, you're compromising your attack power and jamming, which is a big DO NOT WANT for BCs.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: WM in a Nubless game? |
Thu, 19 June 2008 05:59 |
|
Soobie | | Officer Cadet 3rd Year | Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007 Location: Australia | |
|
If I was laughing at you I'd be doing it in PM, not out in public ... I'm just not that mean (Actually, I am that mean, just not this time)
I'm still not seeing why WM would want more than Prop5 until Cons13
Not sure why you would need to go faster than 1.75 with BCs? Unless you want it for R2 I suppose. But BC probably shouldn't be going with R2 because it is assured of first move against CCs and FFs, so R3 CCs (and FFs!) will be a bit diabolical. Better to put the resources into W10/C10/P5 and get FM Collie(/sapper) BCs with a couple of jets for 1.75 board speed. Still have a couple of slots left for 'whatever' ... maybe comps so those damn CCs don't *always* shoot first, but seems a waste of germ to me.
(Personally I like BC as a Jihad platform too, but that's a wide open debate ... and who cares about big engines for Jihads? )
But, jokes aside, for WM give me W10 before P9 any day. I'd be pretty surprised if anyone with NRSE would put more than DDL7 on BC unless it was for a specialised purpose like a hunter/sweeper of some sort ... even then I *may* be thinking "why not use DDL7 with 2 slots of jets?"
(What's all this talk of preferring FM to DDL7 for BC and WM I hear you ask me? How many decent engines out there don't use germ? ... which brings us to the whole "ramscoop vs non-ramscoop" argument )
Wait ... what happened to nubs vs DNs?
[Updated on: Thu, 19 June 2008 06:07] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|