Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted
| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Wed, 09 April 2008 09:46   |
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 m.a@stars |
 | Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| joseph wrote on Wed, 09 April 2008 13:46 |
Most game dont have a specific victory condition and end up being decided by general acclaim.
In a way this encourages drop outs as when you know that (barring miracles) you cant win you are unlikely to want to continue playing for another 50 odd years while 1st and second slug it out.
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I hadn't put much thought to that positive effect. I hope you're right. 
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The down side of victory conditions is that it can make for "fake" play where players dont get involved in war/expansion etc as they are instead concentrating on hitting the victory conditions.
It can also be annoying to have someone on the other side of the Galaxy hit the victory conditions when you are killing everyone you can reach but cant get to them.
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My thoughts, exactly. That's why I'd like some VCs bumped up a bit. 
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That said this is a total diplomacy game - so you should negotiate to get to them.
In my opinion this game was advertised with victory conditions - so it should stay that way.
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Hm, yeah, there's that. I shall abide by the Victory Conditions and hope for the best. 
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What I would suggest is upping the % planets owned to 40% and insisting that it be one of the 4 victory conditions.
This would mean that only 2 players at most could at any one time be in a position to win. If you are the 2nd player and you let the other win well thats just your bad luck.
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Wholeheartedly agree. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Wed, 09 April 2008 09:51 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| joseph wrote on Wed, 09 April 2008 13:55 |
A race with 3K+ per planet could just hit 4 victory conditions (9000 score, 150000res, 300 capital ships and tech 25 in 5 fields) without showing up too much on the global map (50-60 planets)
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Yet another reason to bump up a bit the "Capships" requirement to, say, a couple thousand.
Diplomacy, war, CA monsters on the rampage, possibility of a sneaky win... what could possibly go wrong? 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Thu, 10 April 2008 06:57 |
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| jimroberts |
 | Petty Officer 2nd Class |
Messages: 52
Registered: March 2008
Location: Germany | |
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| djf01 wrote on Thu, 10 April 2008 12:26 |
Is there still room for another newbie in this game?
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Strictly speaking, unfortunately not. We have the targeted ten players, provided they all submit their race files when we get round to starting, in a few days. If any of them withdraw, or don't submit files, you are welcome.
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Thu, 10 April 2008 07:30 |
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| jimroberts |
| Petty Officer 2nd Class |
Messages: 52
Registered: March 2008
Location: Germany | |
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When to submit files: Micha, who is going to set up the game and keep the passwords in case of dropouts, is on holiday until Sunday. I don't suppose that the first thing he wants to do when he gets back is generate our game, but I'm still thinking that early next week is when we start. I'll get in touch with him on Monday, or maybe he'll report back here quicker.
Victory criteria: I really don't want to say you can't win without some minimum number of planets, so whether 30% or more, it's going to be possible, if difficult, to win without it. As to a sneak win - if you can fulfill four of those conditions without the others seeing that you're getting dangerous, good luck to you! (SS, maybe?) "Fake" play just to meet the conditions? I don't seem to understand this point. Is "real" play going all-out to eliminate the others, and any other style "fake"?
I agree that 300 cap ships is too few, but it's all that game generation allows. As it stands, it's some encouragement to see that you've reached at least one victory condition.
When I put up the OP, I knew that I was aiming for a game rather different from what a lot of people prefer. If any of you on mature consideration decide you would rather stay out, please leave now rather than after 50 years: wait for a better offer, or post one.
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Thu, 10 April 2008 14:58 |
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| Darkwyng |
 | Crewman 2nd Class |
Messages: 15
Registered: April 2008 | |
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Hello,
I've finished designing my race, it's ready to smash all these nasty CAs. 
I'm very much looking forward to this game.
I don't mind which VCs we choose, I'll build up a large and nasty empire with more resources than sense. I'll be fine with any. I don't believe in sneak-winnings - it would be a real achievement, a real victory. There is no fake style.
That said, I believe that 30% of the Planets is an ENORMOUS AMOUNT! That is onehundredandninetytwo planets (192 planets). We only have 512 fleets, that empire can hardly be managed.
But as I said, any VCs are Ok for me.
Have fun,
Pim
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Thu, 10 April 2008 16:12 |
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| Kettch |
 | Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 8
Registered: April 2008
Location: Germany | |
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Mine's as good as finished, as well.
I'm just thinking about some small tweaking, but I guess it's fine as it is.
Looking forward to see the difference between AI and Human players live and in color (even if it's just 16 colors  )
Oh and about VC I agree with Darkwyng. 30% is quite a bunch. Considering there are 10 players quarreling over the planets, getting and keeping 30% of them is quite a quest, IMO.
I don't care about the VC's very much, as I mostly play to earn some experience vs actual players (I still aim for winning, though, as it's not much use playing without being willed to win...)
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Thu, 10 April 2008 18:48 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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Let's hope noone fields a 3-i HE monster, then. 
[Updated on: Thu, 10 April 2008 18:48]
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Fri, 11 April 2008 04:30 |
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| joseph wrote on Thu, 10 April 2008 16:52 |
Fake Play
- building ships that are not designed competitively (ie to fight and beat others) but are designed to hit the min requirements for a capital ship for the minimum cost.
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In my first game of Stars an IT built around 4000 fake capital ships:
CC with FM, 4 Caps, 4 Streaming Pulveriser. Rating=2023.
By definition it's a capital ship but it's pretty useless against real capital ships.
He would have won anyway but doing that also boosted his score since, unlike the score limits in the case of unarmed & escort ships, there is now limit on capital ships - score component for capital ships is:
(8xCapital shipsxPlanets)/(Capital ships+Planets)
So even 2000 capital ships is not that hard. IMO the capital ship VC is pretty useless.
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sat, 12 April 2008 09:43 |
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| jimroberts |
| Petty Officer 2nd Class |
Messages: 52
Registered: March 2008
Location: Germany | |
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Hilton,
we're full, if everybody stays in. You and djf01 applied too late. Maybe if you offer a similar game, you will get enough response in a couple of weeks: maybe even some of the people here would consider being in yours as well.
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sat, 12 April 2008 10:03 |
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| jimroberts |
| Petty Officer 2nd Class |
Messages: 52
Registered: March 2008
Location: Germany | |
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| AlexTheGreat wrote on Fri, 11 April 2008 10:30 |
In my first game of Stars an IT built around 4000 fake capital ships:
CC with FM, 4 Caps, 4 Streaming Pulveriser. Rating=2023.
By definition it's a capital ship but it's pretty useless against real capital ships.
He would have won anyway but doing that also boosted his score since, unlike the score limits in the case of unarmed & escort ships, there is now limit on capital ships - score component for capital ships is:
(8xCapital shipsxPlanets)/(Capital ships+Planets)
So even 2000 capital ships is not that hard. IMO the capital ship VC is pretty useless.
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Actually, you can't boost your score all that much by building cheap capital ships. As an example, suppose you have 100 planets and you build 100 cap ships, it scores you 400. If you increase to ten times as many cap ships, 1000, they score 727, not that much better, or 10000 cap ships score 792. No matter how many cap ships you build, you never reach a score 8 times number of planets, you just approach it very very slowly. So if your IT opponent was building them for that reason, he was wasting his minerals and resources.
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sat, 12 April 2008 11:37 |
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| Hilton |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 28
Registered: February 2005
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada | |
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If I were to offer it, would I have to host it? Or will someone else step up? Some people don't like games where the host plays...
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sat, 12 April 2008 12:05 |
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| jimroberts |
| Petty Officer 2nd Class |
Messages: 52
Registered: March 2008
Location: Germany | |
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| Hilton wrote on Sat, 12 April 2008 17:37 |
If I were to offer it, would I have to host it? Or will someone else step up? Some people don't like games where the host plays...
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You might find somebody willing to host, or you can do as we are doing for this game: there are experienced people here who "superhost". The superhost holds the passwords and sets up the game, so the actual host can't be suspected of taking any advantage, like having created a few games and chosen one he likes.
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sat, 12 April 2008 13:27 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| jimroberts wrote on Sat, 12 April 2008 16:03 |
Actually, you can't boost your score all that much by building cheap capital ships. As an example, suppose you have 100 planets and you build 100 cap ships, it scores you 400. If you increase to ten times as many cap ships, 1000, they score 727, not that much better, or 10000 cap ships score 792. No matter how many cap ships you build, you never reach a score 8 times number of planets, you just approach it very very slowly. So if your IT opponent was building them for that reason, he was wasting his minerals and resources.
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Indeed. But he was fulfilling one Victory Condition with little effort. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sat, 12 April 2008 13:28 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| jimroberts wrote on Sat, 12 April 2008 16:12 |
As I understand it, we all have to use version jrc4 to play on autohost. Is that right?
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It would be highly desirable, yes. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sun, 13 April 2008 09:49 |
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| jimroberts |
| Petty Officer 2nd Class |
Messages: 52
Registered: March 2008
Location: Germany | |
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My bad - I didn't mention experience level in the original post, just added it when somebody mention it.
It's up to you whether you want to stay in or not: us weaker players can probably learn from you while you wipe us out, but it might not be as much fun for you as a game nearer your level.
djf01, Hilton: are you still interested?
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sun, 13 April 2008 10:16 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| joseph wrote on Sun, 13 April 2008 13:42 |
I have just noticed looking at the game details that this is for beginners or near that play level.
I am definately not a beginner - so I should probably bow out 
This would free up a slot for one of the people on the waiting list.
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Awww, c'mon, not everybody will be a beginner in this game, even if some (like me) have less games under their belt than you!
I'm sure your participation would greatly enhance the overall quality and level of enjoyment of the game, be it as ally, enemy, or just role model.
After all, the game is for "beginners and players with not many multiplayer games won", so, why not play?
[Updated on: Sun, 13 April 2008 10:17]
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Ten-player, diplomatic, large, dense, distant, standard (non-AccBBS), unrestricted |
Sun, 13 April 2008 10:34 |
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| Darkwyng |
| Crewman 2nd Class |
Messages: 15
Registered: April 2008 | |
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I don't mind the level of the players. joseph, djf01 and Hilton posted their interest in that order. If one doesn't want to play, the next in the list can move in.
joseph, are you in?
We are about to start soon - as soon as possible in fact -, so let's clarify this.
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