Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » AI passwords
| AI passwords |
Mon, 24 July 2006 05:25  |
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 tgellan |
 | Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 75
Registered: May 2006
Location: Luxembourg | |
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Hello,
I'm just wondering, if you setup an advanced game including AI's, once you try to open an AI's file, Stars! asks for a password, as it would for a password protected player file. So I guess the Jeff's password protected the AI file so that they could at developpment time check what the AI's did. Now it would be a marvel if it would be possible to access the AI file like that and tune them a bit (like adjusting the autobuild queues...)
Would allow to make the AI's more of a challenge, and allow a player to take over them at a later stage...
So, does anyone know that password? Or if there's someone here with the required skills, could he just dig it out of the code/m-files?
Have a nice day
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| Re: AI passwords |
Wed, 11 July 2007 09:32  |
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| PaulCr |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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I know this post is a bit hold but I noticed it whilst looking through, I decided to have a look at how passwords are encoded in the unencrypted version and have come up with that the ascii code of each alternate letter is added then the next multiplied ie Atlantis would be 0+A*t+l*a+n*t+i*s with each step calculated invidually, ie pressing the equal sign after each letters value.
Using this information I've been able to reverse engineer a working password for the ai which is 'qq-tfi', presumably it isn't the original password but it does work on my machine. I'd be interested if somebody else can confirm whether the password works on their machine or not.
The normal version of stars does encrypt the password hash so you can't use this information to reverse engineer someone's password if you could get their .m or .r1 files but I believe there is/was a stars version out there that would let you open them anyway without knowing the password if you could get hold of their game files.
With regard to changing the autobuild orders, a quick test does have it using the new queue, however the AI I tried it with didn't build ships at planets with autobuild orders even when they were all complete although it did continue throwing packets for scouting. It is possible to play the game as the AI though with you doing it's shipbuilding and it deciding what to do with them and what to research.
[Updated on: Wed, 11 July 2007 13:41] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: AI passwords |
Wed, 11 July 2007 15:55 |
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Unfortunately, there is no way to really 'fix' the AI's. The code used for what they do isn't heuristic so it doesn't 'learn' and adjust based on what a player does. The races cheated in that they were created with tons of points in the minus.
So, now that Paul has been so kind as to open things up for view, Here are the races for you all to see:
Robotoids
HE
IFE, OBRM, UR and MA
tri-immune
Growth 7%
1 resource per 800 colonists
Factories: 13, 9, 16 - G box checked
Mines: 10, 4, 8
Energy, Prop, Elec normal
Weaps, con cheap
Bio expensive
Points left: -1161
Turindrones
SS
IFE, ARM, MA, RS
Grav: .52g - 6.32g, Temp: -160 - +12 C, Rad immune
1 in 3 hab
Growth 15%
1 resource per 800 colonists
Factories: 15, 10, 25 - G box checked
Mines: 10, 5, 9
ALL techs expensive!
start at 3
Points left: -1173
Automitrons:
IS
GR, OBRM, NAS, LSP
Grav: .15g - 1.52g, Temp: immune, Rad 0-100 mR (maxed but not immune)
1 in 2 hab
Growth 16%
1 resource per 800 colonists
Factories: 14, 9, 14 - G box checked
Mines: 14, 5, 14
ALL techs expensive!
start at 3
Points left: -1211
Rototills
CA
TT, OBRM, NAS, LSP, BET
Grav immune, Temp: -104 to 104C, Rad: 25-75 mR
1 in 3 hab
Growth 15%
1 resource per 800 colonists
Factories: 15, 10, 15 - G box NOT checked
Mines: 15, 5, 15
Bio cheap, the rest expensive
start at 3
Points left: -971
Cybertrons
PP
IFE, TT, MA, OBRM, NAS, LSP
Grav: .25 to 3.92g, Temp: -132 to 132C, Rad: 17 to 83mR
1 in 3 hab
Growth 19%
1 resource per 1000 colonists
Factories: 15, 9, 25 - G box checked
Mines: 10, 10, 5
Energy, Weaps, Con cheap
Elec, Bio normal
Prop expensive
start at 3
Points left: -1246
Macinti
AR
IFE, TT, ARM, ISB, GR, UR, MA
Default start race wizard centered habs
1 in 2 hab
Growth 20%
Pop divisor 10
Energy, Con cheap - the rest normal
Points left: -1287
Now you know why the AI's are so easy to kill even with their massive point holes....
Many thanks to Paul
Ptolemy
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| Re: AI passwords |
Wed, 11 July 2007 16:51 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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Had another quick look when I got back, you can create ship designs for it, however the ai doesn't seem to build them itself and if you build them for it seems to get confused and doesn't really know what to do with them, either ignoring them or using it for something ridiculous like a stack of 5 battleships chasing a single scout. As far a I can tell you can't do anything with the fleets yourself either since any orders you make to anything but the production queues seem to be ignored.
There doesn't look like there is anything useful you can do to help them out unless you want to mm their production queues, about the only use for the password I can come up with is if your interested in watching what the AI is doing.
With regard to the designs Ptolemy gave, they presumably differ depending on their expertise level since the one I've tested with only has a 2 point deficit.
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| Re: AI passwords |
Wed, 11 July 2007 22:29 |
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I suspected that they probably were different depending on the skill level. The designs I posted are the expert skill level designs.
Ptolemy
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| Re: AI passwords |
Thu, 12 July 2007 04:31 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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| Quote: |
After some mathematics done I trust the real original AI pw was "viewai". Seems most probable pw for viewing ai.
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I didn't bother trying to find the original, the i on the end was obvious given the factors for the password hash, the first 5 could have been anything.
I did chose to try the f since I did originally make a mistake and converted the 105 to j and I figured the password may have been jeffj. factoring the result then gave a t, for the rest I square rooted the remainder and used that has the basis of the first 2 letters and used the remainder for the third letter and then manipulated the first 2 to the get something typeable for the third
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| Re: AI passwords |
Thu, 12 July 2007 11:36 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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| Quote: |
Have you tried to mod the race designs in .HST file? If it works then maybe lets first try to make a tool to fix them and then see if they pull their weight bit better?
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I have the information needed to allow the race to be modified but I haven't bothered writing anything to do so since I couldn't think of a use for it, especially since you would need to enter the existing settings so the code knows what is already there, create the new race in the race wizard to check points are valid and then reenter it on the web page which is a little long winded.
I may knock something up quickly for the unencrypted version to try changing the AI race settings.
| Quote: |
Just to confirm the algorithm ... i tried with "iymtfi", "fymmgsd" and "yfmmgsd". Seems that it works
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I know the +*+*+* algorithm is correct, with the random password for the ai I reverse engineered though I did think there was a possibility that the AI hash could be something specific to the machine it's running on, ie the serial number or something else since there wouldn't be any need for the AI to have a real password. While I did think it likely the password was always the same having tried it on to different games, 1 with the normal and the other the Unencrypted version I didn't want to claim that the password definately works only to then have everyone tell me that it didn't
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| Re: AI passwords |
Thu, 12 July 2007 14:17 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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| 'Kotk wrote:' |
Have you tried to mod the race designs in .HST file? If it works then maybe lets first try to make a tool to fix them and then see if they pull their weight bit better?
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I've done a very quick page as a test for the unencrypted version at http://stars.atlantissoftware.co.uk/data/custom/raceupdater. html
At the time of writing it only allows you to set the population efficiency and factory settings, there is no error checking, no restrictions on values entered and the interface is ugly but it does work.
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| New Challenge: |
Thu, 12 July 2007 22:03 |
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'viewai' works for the AI files in a solo game. But it doesn't work for the AI files in a game with AIs and more than one human.
My deepest respect for reverse engineering the 'viewai' password - can you figure out the case for AIs with multiple humans?
BTW, I figured out a possible use for this - if you happen to like the pretty pictures that the Xtreme Borders tool can make, dumping the .p files for the AIs gives more accurate data for the maps.
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| Re: AI passwords |
Fri, 13 July 2007 04:54 |
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| Kotk | 
 | Commander |
Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003 | |
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| PaulCr wrote on Thu, 12 July 2007 21:17 |
At the time of writing it only allows you to set the population efficiency and factory settings, there is no error checking, no restrictions on values entered and the interface is ugly but it does work.
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Nah why we need fancy? Worst about AI-s seem to be mine and tech settings btw. But ... I was thinking actually more like automated AI Meanifier.
For example... you give to it your HST file and then ...
1) Tool detects that there is HE AI present
2) Tool mods it into some lovely HE design like:
IFE, ISB, OBRM, RS ( so UR, MA -> ISB, RS )
3I 6% ( drop growth a click )
Econ = 900 ; 15/7/25 [v] 13/3/24 ( now thats econ )
Points left: -1160
Names, etc left like they were.
Such AI would be still stupid and do its AI spore rain and other sillynesses. However ... it will have minerals and econ compared to current ...
IFE, OBRM, UR, MA
3I 7%
800 ; 13/9/16 [v] 10/4/8
Your current Race Updater is for ecryptionless stars mod ... yes?
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| Re: New Challenge: |
Fri, 13 July 2007 05:59 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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| 'Kotk wrote:' |
Hash 0xFFFFFFFF is indicating that the developers did not care about eyeballing AI in multiplayer. Hmm ... bit harder to find a cool one there. '\LTUKTWU' seems to work. Anyone finds better one
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There is enough flexibility in the algorithm that it may be possible to generate something more memorable. Once a working password is available it doesn't really matter, if you lose it there is always this page available to look it up.
I wouldn't want to try doing so manually either, probably the best option would be a quick routine to generate the hash when given a password and then run it against a dictionary and see if you get a match. There are a massive number of possible password that can be generated from a single hash. Simple mathmatics tells you that there must be 256 with 5 Characters, 65536 with 6 etc although most of them would be unprintable, ie ascii codes 17,198,65,0,8 where the only printable characters are 65-A and 198-Æ which most people probably wouldn't know whow to type anyway especially without knowing the ascii value.
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| Re: New Challenge: |
Fri, 13 July 2007 06:04 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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| 'gwellman wrote:' |
BTW, I figured out a possible use for this - if you happen to like the pretty pictures that the Xtreme Borders tool can make, dumping the .p files for the AIs gives more accurate data for the maps.
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I wouldn't bother using an ai to do this for a real game, I'd simply set up an observer JoaT race and give it tech 127 using my tech mod, that way you only need a single .p file to see the entire universe.
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| Re: AI passwords |
Fri, 13 July 2007 06:18 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
|
Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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| 'Kotk wrote:' |
Nah why we need fancy? Worst about AI-s seem to be mine and tech settings btw. But ... I was thinking actually more like automated AI Meanifier.
For example... you give to it your HST file and then ...
1) Tool detects that there is HE AI present
2) Tool mods it into some lovely HE design like:
IFE, ISB, OBRM, RS ( so UR, MA -> ISB, RS )
3I 6% ( drop growth a click )
Econ = 900 ; 15/7/25 [v] 13/3/24 ( now thats econ )
Points left: -1160
Names, etc left like they were.
Your current Race Updater is for ecryptionless stars mod ... yes?
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The code only works for the Unencrypted version since to run against the normal it would require you to enter the existing values since it can't find them itself.
The automated AI Meanifier is a nice idea since it only requires the .hst file. Would be fairly easy to do for the unencrypted version. The Encrypted version could possibly be done by telling it which slots are occupied by an AI, which one it is and what its expertise level is although I'd probably only encode it to do the Expert level.
I'm not sure the AI would make use of things like ISB since they don't appear to know how to use the design I created for them. They are probably limited to creating preexisting designs since that would have made the ai easier to code.
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| Re: AI passwords |
Fri, 13 July 2007 21:15 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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| Kotk wrote on Fri, 13 July 2007 09:54 |
Nah why we need fancy? Worst about AI-s seem to be mine and tech settings btw. But ... I was thinking actually more like automated AI Meanifier.
For example... you give to it your HST file and then ...
1) Tool detects that there is HE AI present
2) Tool mods it into some lovely HE design like:
IFE, ISB, OBRM, RS ( so UR, MA -> ISB, RS )
3I 6% ( drop growth a click )
Econ = 900 ; 15/7/25 [v] 13/3/24 ( now thats econ )
Points left: -1160
Names, etc left like they were.
Such AI would be still stupid and do its AI spore rain and other sillynesses. However ... it will have minerals and econ compared to current ...
IFE, OBRM, UR, MA
3I 7%
800 ; 13/9/16 [v] 10/4/8
Your current Race Updater is for ecryptionless stars mod ... yes?
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I have an initial developers version of the AI Meanifier which works with both the normal and unencrypted versions, for testing you basically pass the existing race in hex excluding the name part (ie the first 113 bytes) zeroing the values you don't want to modify. In another textbox you then pass it the race you want to change it to again zeroing the values you don't want to change. It does load with the Robotoid expert ai values in box one and a 20%, maxed out economy HE in box 2 (-11483 pts left).
The PPS scores for it after 43 years in small sparse were 91 planets, 30 starbases, 81 unarmed ships, 229 escorts, 59 tech levels (7/14/12/15/7/4) and 43k in resources.
A public version would simply have a dropdown box for each racenumber allowing you to select the current AI race and another to select the target race level once designs have been settled on (ie Easy, Medium, Hard, Ultimate etc) and will then look up the required values.
The test version is mainly an easy way of being able to try out various race designs and seeing how the ai resoponds to them, it isn't suitable for people not use to hexediting files so I've decided against publicly publishing a link to it.
I now have a basic public page to upgrade the expert robotoid ai to an ultimate HE, the page is located at http://stars.atlantissoftware.co.uk/data/custom/aimodifier.a spx
Getting more balanced races will require deciding on a design and then seeing how the AI plays it which will take time.
[Updated on: Sat, 14 July 2007 14:13] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: AI passwords |
Mon, 30 March 2009 11:02 |
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| magic9mushroom |
| Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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| slimdrag00n wrote on Mon, 30 March 2009 15:25 |
i cant believe they actually even let you select difficulty in this game.
Has anyone ever played the easiest difficulty setting before? Maybe they just have the hardest level switched with the easiest?
Nah im not serious about that.. But i seriously cant believe How lame they are..
Iv played all the races.. Only two actually build tougher ships and do stuff besides colonize. I forgot which ones.
I remember i use to colonize all the good planets and then hit F9 untill i passed like 100 years just so the AI would have a ship to actually fight against me lol..
Anyways if anyone has any harder Race designs that work and i can easly use them, that would be cool.
Im sure they will be dumb..
But it will at least be a different dumb AI then im use to playing with.
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The reason the AIs seem so dumb is that Stars! is so insanely over-analysed which means that the players are playing more optimally than the AIs.
Also because the Jeffs when making the races severely underestimated the usefulness of mines.
The Macinti are an insane race design though, no real holes at all. What would be rather funny would be to set up an AI game and hack yourself control of the Macinti AI, then go to town.
[Updated on: Mon, 30 March 2009 11:04] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: AI passwords |
Mon, 30 March 2009 18:33 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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This is an old thread, I've found the old AI modifier I wrote and I've added it to the new server at http://stars.atlantissoftware.co.uk/aimodifier.aspx, just checked it and it works, it is limited since I didn't have the encryption algorithm back then, it only changes the robotid expert AI and it gives it triple immunity, 20% growth, the best economic settings possible and I think it adds some positive LRTs but I'm not entirely sure which from memory.
The Robotid is an HE so it get 40% pop growth, I'm just looking at it now and 1k pop goes 1.4k, 1.9k, 2.7k, 3.8k, 5.3k, 7.4k, 10.4k, 14.5k, 20.3k and so on so on. It expand ridiculously quickly. In 2420 against 14 other AIs and a human player doing nothing it was in 1st with stats of 37/1/12/3/0/35/4649/269 compared to the 2nd place 46/1/13/4/0/27/1228/143, in 2430 it's stats were 53/15/100/85/0/46/23k/1144 which compared to the 2nds 49/2/41/7/0/33/2628/29, in 2440 it was 98/25/73/380/0/57/66k/2913, in 2450 it was up to 157/46/21/848/0/82/118k/5050.
I've never actually tried playing against it to find out how easy or hard it is too beat but it does look like fairly big challenge. I can never motivate myself to play properly against the AI since it just seems a waste of time.
The app is fairly simple to use although the instructions on it are misleading since the page was basically a copy of the developers page, to use it select the .hst file to amend, enter the race number of the robotid Expert AI and click modify at which point it should start downloading the modified version which you just use to replace the original. The 2 drop downs only have one option which is already selected so you can just ignore them.
[Updated on: Mon, 30 March 2009 18:34] Report message to a moderator
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Good job! 
Gives some answers:
found even bit more cryptic one -- 'TV+OdX+U'
