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icon1.gif  Rebuilding Race Traits Sun, 28 January 2007 00:51 Go to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Here is an arbitrary list of Racial Traits designed to replace the PRT/LRT system with a new system capable of greater diversity.

== Race Traits ==
(Select as many as you like, though keep in mind that they become more expensive the more you take, and some combinations may be extra pricey while others may be detrimental.)

Extended Range Engines:
You can build the Fuel Mizer*, as well as more advanced ramscoop engines. Fuel usage is reduced by 20%. Your engines take 50% more damage from striking mines and ramscoop speed in combat is reduced by 0.25. You can build the Antimatter Generator. +1 starting Propulsion tech level.
*A weaker version than currently used.

Tactical Agility:
Your ships' speed in battle is increased by 0.5 and you can travel through minefields safely at 1 warp speed faster than normal. All engines cost 15% more. You can build the Energy Dampener. +1 starting Propulsion level.

Dirty Engines:
You sacrifice radiation shielding for lighter engine weight and ease of construction. You do not build the normal ramscoop engines, but you do get the Exposed Fission Drive*, Radiating Hydro-Ramscoop, Radiating Hydro-MizerScoop**, and Radiating Mega Ramscoop**, which are cheaper and much lighter than their normal counterparts, but very dangerous to your colonists (killing 0.15% per ly travelled) unless your ideal Radiation level is at least 85mR. Radiating engines also make cloaking less effective. +1 Propulsion level.
*Not a ramscoop, a more efficient but radiating variant of the qj5.
**If you also take Extended Range Engines.

Heavy Combat Hulls:
You can construct the Battlecruiser and Dreadnaught hulls.

No Heavy Freighters:
You cannot construct the Super Fuel Transport, Large Freighter, or Super Freighter. +1 starting Construction level.

Aggressive Instinct:
Your invading troops gain a 25% numerical bonus and you can build weapons 10% cheaper than other races. You only gain access to basic defense installations, and only basic* minelaying pods. You can build the Flux Capacitor. +3 starting Weapons level.
*Even if you would get mine pods from other traits.

Herd Instinct (aka, Sheeple):
Your planets are 20% larger. All research costs 25% more.

Advanced Stealth:
Your ships and packets gain inherent 75% cloaking. You gain access to the Ultra Cloak, Stealth Bomber, and several miscellaneous items that provide cloaking bonii. Cargo doesn't count against cloaking. +2 starting Electronics level.

Terraforming Prodigy:
You gain access to Total Terraforming techs and the Retro Bomb. All terraforming costs you 30% less. Eventually you will be able to build the Orbital Adjuster. Your packets that aren't fully caught have a chance of terraforming on impact. Your planet size is decreased by 20%, however. +3 Biotech level.

Space Demolition:
You gain access to improved minelaying pods of all types and a special minelayer hull. You can remote detonate your Standard and Speed Trap minefields. You can also travel through enemy minefields safely at 1 warp speed higher than normal, stacking with Tactical Agility.

Stargate Traveller:
You can build advanced stargates, up to and including infinite range and mass capacity. You can send cargo through stargates. Your ships are less likely to take damage or be destroyed from overgating. However, your mass drivers have their throwing/catching speeds reduced by 1. +1 Construction and Propulsion level.

Hyper Expansion:
Your PGR is doubled, but maximum planet size is halved. You get the cheap, versatile Mini-Colonizer hull and Settler's Delight engine. You can only build the basic 100/250 stargate. (If you also take Stargate Traveller, you do not gain better stargates but you do gain the other ST abilities.) +1 Biotech level. Not available to Synthetics (see below).

Hiveworld (No Place Like Home):
All planets flagged as "homeworlds" are twice as large for you. All other planets are 10% smaller.

Siege Engineer:
You can build more advanced mass drivers that can fling packets at higher speeds. Mass packets thrown by you deal 20% more damage. Mass drivers are 30% cheaper. Bombs are 20% cheaper to build and you gain access to the Strategic Bomber* hull. You cannot, however, build Smart Bombs. +1 Weapons level.
*Formerly called the b52 bomber.

Hardy Pilgrims:
Your colonists can reproduce on freighters at 50% of their normal PGR. In ground combat they gain a 50% numerical bonus to defense. You lose 50% fewer colonists from hostile environments. Planetary defenses are 50% cheaper to build. Synthetics cannot benefit from the colonist growth in transit, but they gain an additional 15% ground combat strength on both attack and defense due to specialized soldier design.

Electronic Warrior:
Your ships gain +1 to initiative. You gain access to advanced jammers and all your ships have inherent 20% jamming. Your battle computers bestow 5% more accuracy to torpedoes and missiles. Weapons are 15% more expensive, however.

Bioweapon Mastery:
Your smart bombs kill twice as much population as normal and weigh half as much. Your conventional and LBU bombs cost double. It's not recommended to combine this trait with Siege Engineer. +1 Biotech level.

Expert Signal Processing (ESP):
You can sense the design of another player's ship just by scanning it. You can build the Tachyon Detector. Scanner ranges are improved by 25%. You can also scan planets in range of your stargates. +2 Electronics level.

Solid-State Sensors:
Your scout, frigate, and destroyer hulls gain a built-in penetrating scanner whose power is dependent on your Electronics technology. You cannot build planetary scanners; if AR, you do not gain innate planetary scanning ability. +1 Electronics level.

Open-Source Research:
Each turn you gain a bonus to research in each field equal to 10% of the average spent by all races (including you) in that field. You are 60% more likely to gain technology from salvage or invasion.

Creative Improvisation:
Whenever you have an opportunity to gain technology from salvage or invasion, you also have a 2% chance to learn to build any one tech item present that is not normally available to you. (You still need the required tech levels to actually build it.)

Heavy Armor:
Your armor plating is 40% stronger than the listed rating and weighs 40% more.

Regenerating Shields: same.

Advanced Remote Mining: same, but cheaper and the only hull it grants is the midget miner, and mining bots are 25% cheaper across the board.

Improved Starbases: Same, except base armor is double on all starbases and starbase jamming tops out at 85%.

Biomorphic Hulls:
By researching Biotechnology, the completely flexible Mini-Morph, Meta-Morph, Ultra-Morph, and Biome Station hulls are available to you. These hulls heal at 5* normal rate. +1 Biotech level.

Guerrilla Warfare:
You have access to the following techs: Rogue hull, Croby Sharmor, Fielded Strobnium*, Mini-Gun, Gatling Neutrino Cannon, Pirate Uploader** and Speed Trap 20 pod. Capital ship hulls*** are 20% more expensive. +1 Weapons level.
*At Con 5 En 3, more useful than Fielded Kelarium since you can expect to use it on destroyers.
**Scanner, replaces Robber Baron, lower tech but essentially useless for scanning.
***Battleship, Dreadnought, and Ultra-Morph.


== Archetype ==
(Select one. Fundamental mechanics of your race.)

Industrial:
As "normal" races behave. You live on planets, build installations, and reproduce biologically.

Alternate Reality (Stellar): Same effects as in 2.6, except: +3 Energy level, and colonists don't die off in transit.

Synthetic (von Neumann / Brave New Worlder):
You are either androids or replicants. You live on planets, but do not have a Population Growth Rate. Instead, you produce population artificially in your production queue. In the Economy screen, you get to select your 1/xxxx population reource efficiency (unlike industrial races, it's multiplied by hab% like AR) and the colonists constructed per 10 resources (let's say between 500 and 2500). You do not operate factories, but you do need mines and defenses. A planet's population does not affect how many colonists it can produce, only the resources available. You also get a toggle to select if you are Androids (+2 Elect level) or Replicants (+2 Bio level) - apart from starting tech it doesn't have any economic effect but is kinda nice for roleplaying and can also affect which traits will work better for you.


[Updated on: Thu, 01 February 2007 23:24]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Sun, 28 January 2007 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sirgwain is currently offline sirgwain

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

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Is the idea that you no longer have a PRT with LRTs? Do you pick and choose from among these abilities to define your race?

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Sun, 28 January 2007 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

I'm amused by the fact that that this is the sort of racial trait selection used by Stars! v1.x

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Sun, 28 January 2007 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iconian is currently offline Iconian

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA
I like it. Sneaky I like the idea of being able to mix and match my race's traits. In fact, I'd take it a step or two farther. How about dividing every single trait up into different categories? For instance,

Quote:

Space Piracy:
You can construct the Rogue hull and special scanners that allow you to steal minerals from fleets or planets. You gain the basic Speed Trap mine pod.


You could divide this into each of its separate elements. One trait would allow you to build the Rogue, another would let you build the thief scanners, and a third would let you build Speed Traps.

Quote:

I'm amused by the fact that that this is the sort of racial trait selection used by Stars! v1.x


I read that somewhere. Why did the Jeffs do away with it? Did they decide it was becoming too burdensome for the players? I suppose that could kind of be understandable. Early on, a new player presented with a mishmash of 50 different traits to select from would probably have a pretty difficult time sorting through it all. Difficult, and it would also take a long time. I remember in the early days when I first started playing Stars! having to sort through endless pages in the tech browser to figure out what was going on--plus reading the manual, going through the tutorial, etc. Hmmm . . .

I think a combination of more technology/research options would solve all the problems.



Yeah, bread too.

Don't Let the Stars! Fade Away

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Sun, 28 January 2007 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
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Location: Pacific NW

Iconian wrote on Sun, 28 January 2007 14:10



Quote:

I'm amused by the fact that that this is the sort of racial trait selection used by Stars! v1.x


I read that somewhere. Why did the Jeffs do away with it? Did they decide it was becoming too burdensome for the players? I suppose that could kind of be understandable. Early on, a new player presented with a mishmash of 50 different traits to select from would probably have a pretty difficult time sorting through it all. Difficult, and it would also take a long time. I remember in the early days when I first started playing Stars! having to sort through endless pages in the tech browser to figure out what was going on--plus reading the manual, going through the tutorial, etc. Hmmm . . .



(1) Might have been too complicated to balance considering how they interact, especially with adding in new traits, so they took an easier path. Of course, balance is much more of an issue with rawly quantitative issues (planet size, item cost changes) than more qualitative ones (detailed scanner info, detonating mines).

(2) Players complained that when taking all the advantageous traits they'd get stomped by someone who only took one or two and spent the rest of their points on economy and growth, therefore obviously the system sucks. Rolling Eyes

Given my experiences with humans, I'm inclined to favor the latter.

sirgwain wrote on Sun, 28 January 2007 09:07

Is the idea that you no longer have a PRT with LRTs? Do you pick and choose from among these abilities to define your race?



Exactly. The idea behind it is that you'll still end up with advantages and disadvantages, but you get to pick and choose which ones. Say you want a good invading race and like playing IS for the population advantages - take Hardy Pilgrims for that, and then add Stargate Traveller and Aggressive Instinct. Now your troopers are excellent on both attack and defense and you can send massive amounts of them through stargates. Your defenses are IS cheap but WM inferior. Now since you can fling ships around instantly, you can also take Hiveworld since it'll hurt you less. And maybe you want to risk taking both Hyper Expansion (even though you had to pay more for it than normal) and Herd Instinct so your colonies will come out at 66% normal size and your homeworld at 120% normal size. Your colonists can grow in transports as fast as most other races do on the ground! Your research will be slow but you figure you can live with that if you go factoryless and take 3 cheap fields, and you won't be able to gate those nice flux-cap battleships very well. Congratulations, you have a race that can be frightening in some aspects, but hope and pray you don't run into someone with Open-Source Research and Siege Engineer!

Also:
The list above has been updated.


[Updated on: Sun, 28 January 2007 22:13]

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Re: Rebuilding ... Econ Page Too Mon, 29 January 2007 03:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Economy page should have "common sanity checker" option that does not let to break it too easily by novice player.

Pop efficency:
Weak: 1/2500 it cant be changed
Normal: 1/1000 may be changed by one click

Factories:
Factoryless: 5/25/5; [ ] always; unavailable with weak pop efficency; non-HE must have at least growth rate 18.
Weak: 10/10/10; [ ] always; unavailable with weak pop efficency; non-HE must have at least growth rate 17.
Strong: 12/9/16; optional G box; unavailable with weak pop efficency; non-HE must have at least growth rate 15.
Hyper: 15/7/22; [x] always; non-HE must have at least growth rate 13.

The efficency and cost may be changed by 1 click and operated may be changed by 2 clicks; on Hyper case the factories operated may be changed by 3 clicks.

Mines:
Efficency is 10; may be raised up to 15
Cost is 3; may be changed by one click
Operated does follow the count of factories operated with minimum of 10 and it may be changed by +-3 clicks.

Lots of stars! games have been won with race designs that not meet these rules, however usually the designs were taken just for challenge or did effectively differ from given rules by a quite little margin. Very Happy Nod


[Updated on: Mon, 29 January 2007 03:23]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Mon, 29 January 2007 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Iconian wrote on Sun, 28 January 2007 14:10

I like it. Sneaky I like the idea of being able to mix and match my race's traits. In fact, I'd take it a step or two farther. How about dividing every single trait up into different categories?



Well, I'd want to keep things in thematic groups, and not give an overwhelming amount of trivial choices. About 30 options should be enough. That's an awful lot of possible combinations (New Shocked 1,073,741,824 to be exact!) Of course, not all of these combinations will make sense, but there's still a huge amount of variety available.

Edit: Updated list: changed some wording, added No Heavy Freighters, replaced Space Piracy with Guerilla Warfare which looks more fun.

If you have any cool ideas, speak up!

Another edit: added Dirty Engines.


[Updated on: Mon, 29 January 2007 15:08]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Mon, 29 January 2007 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iconian is currently offline Iconian

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA
Kotk: I think your idea was kind of used by Space Empires III. In that game you could "tell" your ministers to act according to certain procedures, and they would do so. For instance, you could give them control over your colonies and tell them to go heavy on beams, missiles, or torpedoes, and they'd build those types of ships automatically. Very low MM. However, I've usually found that things that reduce MM usually reduce your empire's efficiency as well.


Quote:

Well, I'd want to keep things in thematic groups, and not give an overwhelming amount of trivial choices.


That's true. With some games the number of paths available are so great that it's nearly impossible to choose . . . so I choose not to play instead. I think that leading the player slowly on their way to better understanding the system, so that they can more intelligently make decisions, is the way to go.

Perhaps instead of racial traits though the system could use more advanced research and technology functions.



Yeah, bread too.

Don't Let the Stars! Fade Away

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Mon, 29 January 2007 21:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
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Iconian wrote on Mon, 29 January 2007 15:31



Perhaps instead of racial traits though the system could use more advanced research and technology functions.



I'm not sure how you mean --- if you're suggesting different research paths that a race can choose at the expense of others, granting them certain abilities while denying them other abilities... what's the difference?

In my opinion the racial trait system seems a lot easier to balance since all the positives and negatives are right there up front, and a player knows what he's getting into at race creation.

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Tue, 30 January 2007 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
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Just to really throw something into the mix...Heros that grant specific RT's to the fleet/planet etc that they're with?

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Tue, 30 January 2007 04:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Coyote wrote on Tue, 30 January 2007 03:21

Iconian wrote on Mon, 29 January 2007 15:31



Perhaps instead of racial traits though the system could use more advanced research and technology functions.


In my opinion the racial trait system seems a lot easier to balance since all the positives and negatives are right there up front, and a player knows what he's getting into at race creation.


How true. Besides, it forces races to be somewhat "fixed" and predictable from the outset, thus keeping in line with the overall chess-like strategical foundation of the game itself. Cool



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Tue, 30 January 2007 05:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

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gible wrote on Mon, 29 January 2007 21:53

Just to really throw something into the mix...Heros that grant specific RT's to the fleet/planet etc that they're with?



Heroes? Granting racial traits?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, can you elaborate and/or give an example?

If you were to have "Hero" ships/etc involved, at least as how I understand the term - one or two powerful super-units that you can't build more of - that would/should be a function of a scenario game setup, not race design, and that's a whole different (but equally fun-inducing) area of the game that I would like to see come into its own.


Edit: updated Reflective Armor.


[Updated on: Tue, 30 January 2007 08:00]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Tue, 30 January 2007 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Coyote wrote on Tue, 30 January 2007 12:06

Heroes? Granting racial traits?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, can you elaborate and/or give an example?

I think he meant entities who act as fleet traits modifiers. See ... lot of the traits modify them for all fleets. Base battle speed, base cloaking, pop grows in freighters and what not. Wink So hero is someone who gives modifiers to a single fleet. After all that is the difference if Darth Vader sits in your fleets flagship or no.
Would be complex to fit it into the game and then for player to manage them guys ... but idea it is...

Probably best is to discuss that idea in General Chat/Freestars/Heroes thread. There:
http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=tree&th=18 72&rid=250

Wink

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Tue, 30 January 2007 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

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I think the WM is not liked much here while the old IS style gets the best Laughing

10% attack against others 50% defence that's absurd.

nothing below 20% bonus for invasion is acceptable for WM.

i'd suggeste these defence and attack factors to be made free for modification by players. just like choosing PGR persentage.


Quote:

I like it. Sneaky I like the idea of being able to mix and match my race's traits. In fact, I'd take it a step or two farther. How about dividing every single trait up into different categories? For instance,



that would be cool Thumbs Up .

Quote:

Well, I'd want to keep things in thematic groups, and not give an overwhelming amount of trivial choices. About 30 options should be enough. That's an awful lot of possible combinations (New Shocked 1,073,741,824 to be exact!) Of course, not all of these combinations will make sense, but there's still a huge amount of variety available.


think Linux. more options more control and more power.
and think of the more fans.
it would defintely add much value for game if there would be reasonably MORE-THAN-USUALLY choices.



[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 11:46]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Tue, 30 January 2007 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iconian is currently offline Iconian

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

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Quote:

I'm not sure how you mean --- if you're suggesting different research paths that a race can choose at the expense of others, granting them certain abilities while denying them other abilities... what's the difference?


Kind of . . .

Basically, you can use the cost of the research as a huge factor, one that will effectively restrain a race from certain paths, which will still allow a lot of race design options and such, without overwhelming with liberty or artificially restraining the player.

But it's not important at the moment. What is important I think is to get an working game up.

Regarding heroes, I think it could definitely work. Before worrying about heroes though I'd like to see every ship (or ship captain or crew) given a specific experience rating. While reading about Supernova the other day, I found that you could hire specific spies with abilities that would grow throughout the game. How about being able to assign specific ship captains with different abilities? One could be a charismatic general and as such would bring a small (5 or 10%) increase in the strength of all ships merged with his ship. Another would be an exceptional tactician that would bring a big (50, 75%) increase in a single ship's strength.

But yes, I think the important thing is that we get a running clone, ASAP. Once the first is done we can add more features . . .



Yeah, bread too.

Don't Let the Stars! Fade Away

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Tue, 30 January 2007 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

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also I think we should not make the tech tree so limited and rigid.
like for example the gadgets should be upgradable and also players should be able to trade blue-prints of their native tech.

and to add more reality to the game the tech blueprints that are traded and the ordinary tech in your tech tree should be upgradable in a way that each player can choose how it will be upgraded.

so it would result in different cloaking devices and different lasers,etc

the choices should be between things like
micromanagement - it will cost less but wont become more powerful
increase efficiency of ... - so it will become more powerful but will also cost more.
50% miniaturization 50% efficieny - it will halve the resources spend resulting in 50 50 with mm and eff.
x% of min. and y% of eff


further, the fuel spending should not be so damn rigid in the game.
like a race would never stop being stupid and learn to do things better.
some LRTs should be possible to change during the game. not to fit another rigid LRT but that and also add some unique possibilites. like some LRT will later on allow you to research even more gadgets.
and that by researching in different ways you could come to not only unique results but also very very unique gadgets.

that would add a lot more value if done reasonably.


[Updated on: Tue, 30 January 2007 12:39]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 00:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Iconian wrote on Tue, 30 January 2007 09:17


Basically, you can use the cost of the research as a huge factor, one that will effectively restrain a race from certain paths, which will still allow a lot of race design options and such, without overwhelming with liberty or artificially restraining the player.



We can always add a greater selection than 50%/normal/175% to research costs --- perhaps a system of sliders with 7 available levels? Say, 25% cost, 50% cost, 75% cost, 100% cost, 150% cost, 250% cost, 400% cost.

Quote:


But it's not important at the moment. What is important I think is to get an working game up.

But yes, I think the important thing is that we get a running clone, ASAP. Once the first is done we can add more features . . .


Yep, getting a bare-bones useable game is most important, everything else can be added in later.

Quote:


Regarding heroes, I think it could definitely work. Before worrying about heroes though I'd like to see every ship (or ship captain or crew) given a specific experience rating.



While that would be fun in a game like Homeworld, it sounds like an absolutely awful idea for Stars! - trying to gain and keep track of experience for each individual ship would be a lot of additional micromanagement, and how exactly would you handle ship stacking with ships of the same design but different experience?

Stars! ships are easy come, easy go. If you had to put a huge investment into one individual ship that you could expect to survive for and be effective for 20+ turns, then maybe it'd make more sense, but when you have 500 battleships throwing themselves against 300 dreadnoughts the importance and relevance of one individual ship having some bonus from experience is essentially nil.

Quote:


While reading about Supernova the other day, I found that you could hire specific spies with abilities that would grow throughout the game. How about being able to assign specific ship captains with different abilities? One could be a charismatic general and as such would bring a small (5 or 10%) increase in the strength of all ships merged with his ship. Another would be an exceptional tactician that would bring a big (50, 75%) increase in a single ship's strength.



If we implement game characters such as spies or admirals or planet leaders, this could be doable, sure. But it'd be quite a job to do effecively - let's wait until we have a balanced completed game first, release it, and then worry about his for a new version. This is a large qualitative change and should be done very carefully.

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 01:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
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Location: Pacific NW

Neo the White wrote on Tue, 30 January 2007 09:34

also I think we should not make the tech tree so limited and rigid.
like for example the gadgets should be upgradable



There can be devices or abilities that auto-improve with your tech level. Why not? Maybe there will be. An example could be the Biotech-based armor, that could become stronger as a function of bio level * con level.

I've suggested making conventional torpedoes have longer range than capital missiles, so combined with lighter weight they'd be a viable counter to them (but weak against conventional beamers).

Another idea is to add ballistic weapons, which have long range, moderate accuracy, and light damage that goes directly to armor. Inaccuracy will increase, say, 50% per square, meaning battle computers will increase their effectiveness at longer range. Capacitors will increase their damage at shorter range. Thus, you can choose to boost either damage or range. They'll be subject to the kill limit of missiles so they won't be overly powerful against swarms and chaff. They'd also require high Propulsion tech, roughly equal or slightly higher than their Weapons tech requirement.

Quote:


and also players should be able to trade blue-prints of their native tech.



Thus removing much of the point of taking traits that give these techs.

Making it easier to trade tech levels is a good thing. Allowing people to make their disadvantages irrelevant and gain advantages they didn't pay for seems like a really bad idea.

Quote:


and to add more reality to the game the tech blueprints that are traded and the ordinary tech in your tech tree should be upgradable in a way that each player can choose how it will be upgraded.

so it would result in different cloaking devices and different lasers,etc

the choices should be between things like
micromanagement - it will cost less but wont become more powerful
increase efficiency of ... - so it will become more powerful but will also cost more.
50% miniaturization 50% efficieny - it will halve the resources spend resulting in 50 50 with mm and eff.
x% of min. and y% of eff



Race traits can change this sort of thing... something like Improved Miniaturization, like BET without the pain.

Quote:


further, the fuel spending should not be so damn rigid in the game.



Hmm? How do you mean, "rigid"? The above traits list gives you lots of engine options.

Quote:


like a race would never stop being stupid and learn to do things better.



I feel this way about humanity a lot... Mad

Game-related answer: that's what research is for! New idea

It's certainly possible to have traits set certain devices at a much higher tech level than other races would get it as. Eg: Aggressive Instinct could mean you don't get any mines until Bio 12/Weap 14/Elect 15, where you get a special mine pod equivalent to what everyone else gets at Bio 4.

Quote:


some LRTs should be possible to change during the game.

What?

Quote:


not to fit another rigid LRT but that and also add some unique possibilites. like some LRT will later on allow you to research even more gadgets.



They already do that. There's plenty of instances with the above trait list that make things available late in the tech tree.

Quote:


and that by researching in different ways you could come to not only unique results but also very very unique gadgets.



This is already the case.





List edit: improved Aggressive Instinct invasion bonus to 25%, reduced Terraforming Prodigy's planet size penalty to 20%


[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 01:16]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 06:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Messages: 906
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Replacing Reflective Armor with Heavy Armor, as the deflection may cause problems. We can still add a "Reflective Armor" tech component.

Adding effects to starting tech levels...


[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 06:31]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
Quote:

Quote:


and also players should be able to trade blue-prints of their native tech.


Thus removing much of the point of taking traits that give these techs.


well to add more reality. but it would not be good if everyone could have every possible gadget.
maybe that only certain gadgets could be sharable. and then also lessening their efficiency in the hands of another race.
but to keep the game interesting then there should be some extra gadgets for unconventional uses so that their sharing would not
ruin the Stars! playability. well the gadgets could be


-laser defence tradable to WM LRT. which would make this style more playable with excitement and risk of "Do I get it?"
-some LRT should include unique planetary device that would be a great blessing for any other player. like terraforming domes. so that the race could colonize any planet but not loose the pop. and this should last with certain impairment to factories and mines plus requirement to spend more resources on terraforming than for anything else. if the planet becomes green then these doems would be dismantled.
- planet regenerating device that would add a whole new racial style with even additional unique LRT settings.
- planetary bunkers to house the hero and some troops and pop.
this should be part of Inner strength. so even if any other race would conquer the planet the IS style race could have their hero and some pop alive there awaiting for rescue. and of course this bunker should not have scanners to see the minerals and ships of the occupier.
This one could have more settings beside the size of it and so one but also maybe it could be unique only for one LRT and not tradable. it could also be tradable only to specific races who are peaceful enough(fit certain LRT requirements)
also a pirate LRT should be able to find these bunkers and sneak in an out as long as they are empty even if the planet is colonized by another race. that would make being a pirate pretty darn fun. thinking that pirates should have smaller bunkers available for them and IS style should simply make more bigger and comfier bunkers.
- automated mineral alchemy factory that does not use external resources to produce minerals. also not something that be better than remote mining but enough to keep a race under attack still producing some ships and packets. also it should not be possible to build it on every planet, especially not on HW and would limit the max pop of the planet. maybe also as more you build those the efficient they become but you loose planetary pop capacity.
- a tractor beam or weapon that enables to capture a whole ship, therefore it's hero and crew. could be a nice addition for pirate LRT and tradable only to stealth and WM LRT's.
-that means one LRT should have a proper response tool to free the hero and ship or do it for others for price. Laughing
and this should not be tradable item or if then only to AR Laughing

Quote:


Quote:

further, the fuel spending should not be so damn rigid in the game.


Hmm? How do you mean, "rigid"? The above traits list gives you lots of engine options.


like changing the efficiency of fuel usage by researching propulsion.


[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 10:26]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

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oh and what if the WM and IS ground assault/defence percentage would improve by 5% percent over the game.
like WM 25% and after some tech levels are achieved 30%
IS style could have it 40% and then 45% and ending with 50%

but I hope that the WM won't loose it's 25%
it's IS that should lower it's 50% before that happens Laughing


Klingon High Council off Laughing


[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2007 12:13]

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
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Neo the White wrote on Wed, 31 January 2007 07:16

Quote:

Quote:


and also players should be able to trade blue-prints of their native tech.


Thus removing much of the point of taking traits that give these techs.


well to add more reality. but it would not be good if everyone could have every possible gadget.
maybe that only certain gadgets could be sharable. and then also lessening their efficiency in the hands of another race.



In other words, tech trading, which you can do (clumsily) in Stars! 2.x, but if we're making a new program we can formalize it and make it much easier to do.

Quote:


- planetary bunkers to house the hero and some troops and pop.
this should be part of Inner strength. so even if any other race would conquer the planet the IS style race could have their hero and some pop alive there awaiting for rescue. and of course this bunker should not have scanners to see the minerals and ships of the occupier.
This one could have more settings beside the size of it and so one but also maybe it could be unique only for one LRT and not tradable. it could also be tradable only to specific races who are peaceful enough(fit certain LRT requirements)
also a pirate LRT should be able to find these bunkers and sneak in an out as long as they are empty even if the planet is colonized by another race. that would make being a pirate pretty darn fun. thinking that pirates should have smaller bunkers available for them and IS style should simply make more bigger and comfier bunkers.



Are you smoking pot?


Heroes sneaking in and out of bunkers? Are we talking about the same game here?

Quote:


- automated mineral alchemy factory that does not use external resources to produce minerals. also not something that be better than remote mining but enough to keep a race under attack still producing some ships and packets. also it should not be possible to build it on every planet, especially not on HW and would limit the max pop of the planet. maybe also as more you build those the efficient they become but you loose planetary pop capacity.



So just like mines, but mostly useless.

Quote:


- a tractor beam or weapon that enables to capture a whole ship, therefore it's hero and crew. could be a nice addition for pirate LRT and tradable only to stealth and WM LRT's.
-that means one LRT should have a proper response tool to free the hero and ship or do it for others for price.



Huh?

I can understand the ability to capture ships that are somehow disabled at the end of combat. Would probably be serioulsy unbalancing, but I understand how it would work and all. What I don't understand is what you mean by capturing the "hero and crew." You're taking the suggestion of character objects and extrapolating all sorts of stuff that makes no sense.

If you want character objects, try coming up with a definition of exactly what they are and how they behave functionally. All this "Heores hiding in bunkers and getting kidnapped by aliens' tractorbeam but escaping and rescuing the princess" isn't making any sense at all.

Quote:


Quote:

further, the fuel spending should not be so damn rigid in the game.


Hmm? How do you mean, "rigid"? The above traits list gives you lots of engine options.


like changing the efficiency of fuel usage by researching propulsion.[/quote]


Like.... researching Propulsion and getting more advanced engines?










Neo, have you actually even played Stars!?

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
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Location: Pacific NW

Neo the White wrote on Wed, 31 January 2007 09:13

oh and what if the WM and IS ground assault/defence percentage would improve by 5% percent over the game.
like WM 25% and after some tech levels are achieved 30%
IS style could have it 40% and then 45% and ending with 50%

but I hope that the WM won't loose it's 25%
it's IS that should lower it's 50% before that happens Laughing





Now that's a coherent post.

It's entirely possible to have ground combat effectiveness based on technology. Weapons seems obvious but it's too imperative anyhow. How about Biotech? This is doable, sure.

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
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depends how the ground assault looks like. will it have airplanes and tanks and mech walkers. or just plain troops if that then weapons and biotech seems reasonable.

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Re: Rebuilding Race Traits Wed, 31 January 2007 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
Quote:

Are you smoking pot?



nope

Quote:

Heroes sneaking in and out of bunkers? Are we talking about the same game here?


nope

and what's that then

Quote:

Regarding heroes, I think it could definitely work. Before worrying about heroes though I'd like to see every ship (or ship captain or crew) given a specific experience rating.

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