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Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 03:30 Go to next message
xdude is currently offline xdude

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 90
Registered: November 2002
Location: Korea

I'm up to 15 million nubians for each player, so I am roughly 13% or so done. I've created macros to help queue ships, but it still takes 7 minutes per player to add 16k ships for each player.

Once I get to one billion or so, I'll open the game for volunteer players to help test some massive battles.

Xdude



Dude!

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 03:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

That's just sick. New Shocked

[Updated on: Mon, 24 April 2006 03:53]

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
donjon is currently offline donjon

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 808
Registered: November 2002
Location: Benque Viejo del Carmen, ...

He's checking for the BNB (billion nubian bug) Rolling Eyes

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
donjon wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 16:04

He's checking for the BNB (billion nubian bug) Rolling Eyes


Wow. Is that described somewhere? Wink

Where can this volunteer sign up? Very Happy



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NingunOtro is currently offline NingunOtro

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 105
Registered: September 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
I think we are about to discover the "16 ROUNDS" Battlefield bug the hard way. Cross fingers for those nubians not to have RS Laughing


If we were esteemed intelligent 'enough', they would have contacted us.
If we can not find them, either we are not smart enough, or they are smarter at hiding.

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
NingunOtro wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 20:41

I think we are about to discover the "16 ROUNDS" Battlefield bug the hard way.


What bug is that? Reaching 16 rounds and finishing battle with opposing armed ships still alive is not considered a bug. Sherlock



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NingunOtro is currently offline NingunOtro

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 105
Registered: September 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Of course it isn't, but it is an artificial game limitation that can be frustrating. What if with such big fleets 16 rounds is not enough to get through the stacked shields (specially when RS is involved)?

I mentioned it because it has the same argumental structure as the BNB. Is a billion Nubians limit (if it really is a limit and not only an appealing number to use) a bug?

I thought we were exploring the technical limits of Stars, and the behaviour of the battle engine belongs in this category too. It is not the main lead of the thread, but battle has already been mentioned.

Maybe I am just thinking ahead, but it might be handy to make sure a copy of the BNB setup remains available as a testbed for several side effects that might appear. Sherlock



If we were esteemed intelligent 'enough', they would have contacted us.
If we can not find them, either we are not smart enough, or they are smarter at hiding.

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kelzar is currently offline Kelzar

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 112
Registered: January 2006
Location: Ohio, US
The "Billion Nubian Bug" was a tongue-in-cheek response as to why one would go through this exercise. I'm actually somewhat surprised that something with the game hasn't already crashed with the 15 million he has now.

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 24 April 2006 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
There is a bug where damage from a large stack (about 8000 I remember) of AMP nubians with capacitors doing significantly less damage then expected, about 10% of expected including taking into account capacitors and the 10% loss of damage for range. I'm fairly sure that the damage overflowed, probably a long, I'm not sure if it was a signed or unsigned long, and don't know what would happen if it were signed and you ended up with negative damage.

It should be possible to duplicate with any armed ship, although missiles probably use completely different code, and getting a similar overflow would be a different bug.



- LEit

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Tue, 25 April 2006 01:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Hopefully the types of nubs are diverse enough to allow for interesting games after, for example perhaps Gible will want to host Pirates2... with 5 empires each with 100 million nubs playing "capture the flag", and a bunch of hungry pirates looking for space salvage.

"Oh nnooooo, the overflow bug swallowed my horde!" Shocked


[Updated on: Tue, 25 April 2006 01:52]

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 15 May 2006 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a fleet size limitation of 32,768 (or 2^15)? Multiplying that with the max number of fleets:

32,768 * 512 = 16,777,216

And then players:

16,777,216 * 16 = 268,435,456

That's just 268 million, how are you supposed to reach 1 billion if just over a quarter billion is the limitation?



Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Mon, 15 May 2006 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
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Apparently the limitation is not fleet size but each type of ship in the fleet. So multiply by 16 for 16 different types (each with 32K ships) per fleet

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Tue, 16 May 2006 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

I found that out when I asked Xdude about. Sorry my bad, 16^2 * 2^15 * 512 = 4,294,967,296

Hmmm... Now that's one limitation I'm not sure anyone in their right minds is ever going to meet. I think I can be happy with that number.



Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Tue, 16 May 2006 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
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With all the people looking at the turn file formats, perhaps it would be possible to generate a .x file that builds lots of ships (I'm assuming 0 cost is used so that any world can build 40k ships per turn).

Save the .x files, run the turn, then with some .x file editor, modify the .x file to the next year, and just run the turn again, that would save lots of work adding ships to build queues every year, and in fact could probably be automated. You'd only need to go merge fleets when you got to 512 fleets and the last fleet at each world has 32k ships in each design.

If you assume only 32k ships built at each of 32 worlds per player (1024 of each of 16 ship designs two times each design), then you can run the turns 31 years (16 to make 512 fleets, then 15 more to fill the last fleet with 32 ships of one design). This will build 520 million ships every batch of 31 years. (1024 ships, 32 batches, 32 worlds, 16 players, 31 years).

I'm not sure 31 years would be safe, that might build more then 32k ships in the fleet and destroy the whole stack. Either it should be tested, or just run it for 30 years at a time, which is still 503 million ships.



- LEit

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Tue, 16 May 2006 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 534
Registered: February 2005
I thought simplest could be to edit the HST file to change number of ships in a fleet...

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Re: Billion Nubian March Update Tue, 16 May 2006 11:08 Go to previous message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Quote:

simplest could be to edit the HST file


Quote:

some .x file editor, modify the .x file to the next year


Cheaters! Wink

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