Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » checking for duplicate serials
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| Re: checking for duplicate serials |
Sun, 16 April 2006 09:16   |
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 Ron |
 | Commander
Forum Administrator
Stars! AutoHost Administrator |
Messages: 1231
Registered: October 2002
Location: Collegedale, TN | |
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| Strannik wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 00:49 |
since some "genious" person made stars! keygen public on rgcs   , i thought mb it would be of some help if we could check for duplicate serials _before_ the game starts. so here is a simple site meant to do the job.
johsmi287.coolinc.info
i'll include games announced here automatically, but if anybody hosts a game on his own and wants to use the "service"  - just PM or email me.
hope this can help some. comments/flames/ideas welcomed.
oh, and happy Easter! (i know not everybody celebrates it today, but still.  )
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Huh??  It sounds like you want people to send you their serials so you can 'verify' if they are duplicates or not.
There are only a few people I'd trust with *my* serial numbers, people who have I've worked with on SAH for years, who I trust, and who I know have the best interests of the Stars! Community at heart.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't trust you, or that you're not sincere in your efforts. I'm saying that if the Stars! Community needs such a service, then it should be hosted by a long-time member of the Stars! Community.
If Wumpus is able to create a tool that can create the serial number hashes used in turn files from real serial number input, then I can compile a serial number hash database that can be used to check for duplicates. (the algorithm is one-way: you cannot take a hash and find the serial that made it)
For many years now, Stars! AutoHost has logged serial number hashes and I do have a way to manually check for duplicate hashes in a game, and even ban hashes if needed.
Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHostReport message to a moderator
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| Re: checking for duplicate serials |
Sun, 16 April 2006 10:50 |
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| Strannik |
 | Crewman 2nd Class |
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2005 | |
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| Ron wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 09:16 |
Huh?? It sounds like you want people to send you their serials so you can 'verify' if they are duplicates or not.
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basicly - yes. i didn't really see much problem with it, since with keygen everybody can make enough serials for him/her. besides, there is no way i can figure out that the submitted number is genuine or genned.
i don't say you have to send me your genuine number. you can gen one and use it in that game. (just kidding)
| Quote: |
There are only a few people I'd trust with *my* serial numbers, people who have I've worked with on SAH for years, who I trust, and who I know have the best interests of the Stars! Community at heart.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't trust you, or that you're not sincere in your efforts. I'm saying that if the Stars! Community needs such a service, then it should be hosted by a long-time member of the Stars! Community.
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i'm not claiming to be "trustworthy" right out of the box. if somebody more trusted (mb you?) is willing to host it - i would only be happy. (it could actually work then) if you want, i can send you the perl code, or the entire site. could save some time.
| Quote: |
If Wumpus is able to create a tool that can create the serial number hashes used in turn files from real serial number input, then I can compile a serial number hash database that can be used to check for duplicates. (the algorithm is one-way: you cannot take a hash and find the serial that made it)
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ofc that would be a lot better! and if we had freestars ready - it would be even better than that! what i mean - projects on volunteering basis tend to take some time.
| Quote: |
For many years now, Stars! AutoHost has logged serial number hashes and I do have a way to manually check for duplicate hashes in a game, and even ban hashes if needed.
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ofc. it just requires _manual_ work, resubmitting in case of a clash, etc...
bottom line - i didn't think that the question with genuine/not genuine number is too acute anymore, since keygen was made public. i just thought that i might want to do something for the community too. 
as for hosting - like i said, i wouldn't care if somebody more established would host it.
honestly - i don't think there is somebody out there hunting for my genuine serial number. it's not a credit card number, after all. what do you want to do with it anyway? spoil me a game for 1 turn? (i'll simply gen a different number if somebody tries to do that). it requires considerable work/time, a lot of hate, hurts him as well and isn't killing me anyway (yes, it could be a crucial turn, but i wouldn't lose my sleep even if i totally screw up in that game).
sounds too much like a _clinical_ problem for me. i have a feeling that Stars! community is a little bit too mature now for such jokes.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 April 2006 10:53] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: checking for duplicate serials |
Sun, 16 April 2006 16:48 |
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| NingunOtro |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 105
Registered: September 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium | |
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Hi Strannik
Glad you asked for comments and ideas.
First of all, let me say that I have no reason whatsoever to have doubts about your honesty and your desire to provide the Stars! community with a tool that might prove quite useful in the following months, considering the increased potential for serial number clashes now that rogue serial number generator is out in the open.
Still, the implementation of the tool you provide suffers the consecuences of what I should benevolently call a few premature and tendentious assumptions that do not match overall behaviour as I believe to be desired by most of the longstanding members of this community (and If what I say in this post is wrong in any way I'd like to be corrected by anyone that has a different thought and/or more authority to speak on behalf of all of us).
It is my belief that throughout the history of Stars! Autohost we have advocated towards respect for the law and the pursuit of logical and ethical compliance with the highest standards.
Thus, we dislike cheating in any way and whenever within our possibilities we try to avoid making it easy and/or rewarding for anyone to cheat.
We like to think of ourselves and our community as being honest people so far and would like to keep it that way.
Only as a last option have we admitted, thinking that all possibility of further obtaining legit serial numbers for Stars! was lost for new players, the possibility of generating probably duplicated serial numbers for them as a service, and were concerned about the complications that might arise in doing so and the most efficient ways to avoid them or reduce them to the minimum.
We believe it reasonable to think that each of us member of this community got his personal Stars! Serial number in any of a few honest ways this can be achieved, either by direct purchase or taken over from someone that got it in such a way and discontinued its use after handing it over to us, so as to make sure that it is and stays UNIQUE.
While we were generous enough to compromise to benefit new players under the assumption that they could not get any new serials, we are not ready to accept the flood of rogue-generator created duplicated serials as equally valid as an honestly purchased original one.
Now, there are not many ways to tell a legit serial from a fraudulently duplicated one, but there are a few situations where the both parties that eventually get into trouble do not deserve credit from our comunity to the same extent. There is a before and an after the supposed general availability of that rogue generator. While we can be almost certain that long-time members of this community all have an (or more than one in some cases) legally acquired serial, we can no longer be sure of that for any new members, and in case trouble arises we have to think the last to join is the faulty one even if this may not be true in all cases.
It becomes thus really important to make sure that as a member of Stars! Autohost your legit serial number or even better its generated hash is known to the service and attributed to you, and utterly valuable to make sure NOBODY gets a copy of your serial in any way as to make possible to claim it is a legit one and his. This is the only way a member of this comunity has to claim that any duplicates not submitted by him are fraudulent and should be barred from participating in any autohost game.
As such, the fact that you ask for the Stars! serial number in your utility is highly unpractical. Also, the impression one gets from the wordings in your postings that all serials, legally bought or rogue genned, are equal, does not help in any way to make an inmaculate ethical background, the spine of any relation based on trust, very credible. I am not saying that it is not, merely that it doesn't appear to.
Maybe this would improve if instead of asking for the serial number you asked the player to submit any .x file genned with his copy of the game, as anyway I have to suppose this is also the only way you have to access the serial number h
...
If we were esteemed intelligent 'enough', they would have contacted us.
If we can not find them, either we are not smart enough, or they are smarter at hiding.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: checking for duplicate serials |
Mon, 17 April 2006 23:26 |
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| Strannik |
| Crewman 2nd Class |
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2005 | |
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ok, ok, i can understand that there might be no need in all this since regenning is not that big of an issue. (just heard once from one fellow emperor that his previous game got screwed up after the regen, true/false - no idea.) i'll remove the site, or make it into a normal Stars! site someday.
i'll set aside the ethics and all that kind of stuff, ok? there is enough of that in RL, imho. besides, i cannot write nearly as eloquent as NingunOtro. (my respect, man!) just one thing - weather Empire is gonna rerelease the game or not is imho still a _big_ question. (if they have no more numbers - how they wanna do it? if they have the numbers - why don't they simply sell them now?) so i wouldn't c much problem with new people genning/using somebody else's serial for now, and purchasing the real ones should they become available. imho a couple of new players would be only welcomed. especially with Jeff's consent on serial question.
yes, it's just a naive comparison of serial numbers. i told my point of view on this issue. (i wouldn't care much if somebody would figure out my serial). it doesn't mean that everybody has to share this point of view. nor would it mean any lightheaded handling of submitted info from my side. (words, words, i know... )
considering hashes - ofc a better idea. i just dunno where to get them from. Stars.ini? there is a line there that's mb it - GlobalSettings value? (i'll try to do some testing here during this week). OTOH, imho hashes used in Stars! include some info about the computer etc, so same serials on different computers would also give u a different hash? besides - if using a hash from .ini file - what could prevent me from taking a submitted hash and substituting it into my .ini file? if that's true - we r back to the trust issue again.
imho, all this checking (or playing at all?) is based somewhat on good will and trust. i mean, there is always a way to cheat somehow if somebody wishes to. just - what for??? (damn, i'm getting demagogic again. sorry about it.)
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