m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 04 April 2006 02:07

Any idea why the universe-generating code would have such a quirk?

I have one possible idea on that. A high RAD value could indicate that the planet has a high concentration of radioactive metals. Or, for those planets that have a low mineral concentration, the planet is too close to the star or can not stop the stars radiation from reaching the surface.

I am also in the process of creating new charts for my web site, to indicate this new info. http://members.cox.net/alan.kolaga/

And, YES, I have hired a squad of WM bodyguards!

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Alan.Kolaga wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 11:40

I am also in the process of creating new charts for my web site, to indicate this new info. http://members.cox.net/alan.kolaga/

Do you want me to send you the charts showing the (lack of) hab correlation with other habs? You might not want to see them though, because you might notice how badly I butchered your pretty code

(BTW if you want to fix the 'stoppoint' sections of the code, you just need to do a find and replace of "stoppiont" for "stoppoint".)

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Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 00:17

Quote: Perhaps it could be interesting to (ab)use the option for some scenario games, if it could be tied to "special" hab settings and not just hi-Rad. I think there are a few people around capable of customising the stars in any given universe. Making an identical change to all stars is obviously easiest (i.e. all planets ideal for OWW, all planets are HW,) but there's no reason something more complex couldn't be done. I daresay you'd want something 'scriptable' though.

Something along these lines, yes. Of course, tinkering with the universe-creating code is not necessary if you know how to alter the relevant game files themselves to suit your fancy. But I can't remember if there was a tool for altering minconcs and hab values, as well as changing the position of planets.

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Alan.Kolaga wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 03:40

m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 04 April 2006 02:07 Any idea why the universe-generating code would have such a quirk? I have one possible idea on that. A high RAD value could indicate that the planet has a high concentration of radioactive metals. Or, for those planets that have a low mineral concentration, the planet is too close to the star or can not stop the stars radiation from reaching the surface.

That would be a nice explanation, yeah.

But I wonder if there's a reason behind the quirk itself. Why is there a correlation at all? I don't remember reading anything like that in the helpfile or the FaQs.

Quote:

And, YES, I have hired a squad of WM bodyguards!

Hhmm, these aren't famous for their perimeter defenses. You better look for some SD folks.

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 11:32

But I wonder if there's a reason behind the quirk itself. Why is there a correlation at all? I don't remember reading anything like that in the helpfile or the FaQs.

I think it is in help file in rather confusing way.
"How to.."/"Create and Save a Custom Race"/"Custom Race Wizard"/"Step 4"/"Growth Conditions"
Has such snippet in it about "Choosing an Extreme Range":

"...., planets with environments near the ends of the spectrum have a good chance of being super-rich in one or more minerals. ...."

Probably Alan studied the amount of the correlation for that purpose.
Funny.

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PricklyPea wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 14:20

Is it not possible to just modify the HST file?

That depends entirely on what your question is in response to

If to my post asserting "only one HW per race"... then no, editting the host file will only let you change *which ones* are the HWs, and do some other tricks which make other worlds *look* like HWs for a while, but for the "real deal", you can only have one HW per race.

Unless, ofc, I'm overlooking a *third* place where the info is stored, but given the experiments with XDude's game, I doubt it.


And if you meant just the generic issue of changing surface conditions and min concs and so on: sure you can, but even without the encryption, it's a very fiddly hex-editting chore unless/until someone builds a nice interface for it, or at least an XML converter or something along those lines.

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Kotk wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 12:45

I think it is in help file in rather confusing way. "How to.."/"Create and Save a Custom Race"/"Custom Race Wizard"/"Step 4"/"Growth Conditions" Has such snippet in it about "Choosing an Extreme Range": "...., planets with environments near the ends of the spectrum have a good chance of being super-rich in one or more minerals. ...." Probably Alan studied the amount of the correlation for that purpose. Funny.

Funny how I had forgotten about that one entirely.

So, it would seem the "quirk" was introduced on purpose , but only regarding Rad settings. Weird.

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wumpus wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 15:30

PricklyPea wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 14:20 Is it not possible to just modify the HST file? That depends entirely on what your question is in response to If to my post asserting "only one HW per race"... then no, editting the host file will only let you change *which ones* are the HWs, and do some other tricks which make other worlds *look* like HWs for a while, but for the "real deal", you can only have one HW per race.

Interesting. Something to consider for future versions of the Genesis Device, perhaps.

"...the 'Genesis Device' has the potential to turn any rock into a near-ideal HomeWorld for your race, including mineral non-depletion. But, due to the use of unstable matter-antimatter compounds, that last effect is only temporary..."

Quote:

And if you meant just the generic issue of changing surface conditions and min concs and so on: sure you can, but even without the encryption, it's a very fiddly hex-editting chore unless/until someone builds a nice interface for it, or at least an XML converter or something along those lines.

Well, I'd say if the fiddly hex-editing has some clear, enforceable rules, it can be scripted . The nice interface would be a different matter, though. I guess all coordinates could be changed, too, provided the X are sorted?

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 10:41

I guess all coordinates could be changed, too, provided the X are sorted?

Map2XY can already do that. And change the names (to another name in the list of names in the exe).

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LEit wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 17:21

m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 10:41 I guess all coordinates could be changed, too, provided the X are sorted? Map2XY can already do that. And change the names (to another name in the list of names in the exe).

I see. So *that* was what was nagging my not-quite-perfect memory...

I wonder if Map2XY could be "extended" to handle hab values and mincons, as well, then.

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 17:26

I wonder if Map2XY could be "extended" to handle hab values and mincons, as well, then.

Not so easily map2xy only changes, as the name suggests, the XY file. And that doesn't contain hab or MC information... (*Just* coordinates and names - unencrypted - and a bunch of encrypted, unchanging game information).

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Dogthinkers wrote on Tue, 04 April 2006 19:43

Do you want me to send you the charts showing the (lack of) hab correlation with other habs? You might not want to see them though, because you might notice how badly I butchered your pretty code

Yes, please send me you charts. And I'll try to over look your coding.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 April 2006 13:03]

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wumpus wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 18:45

m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 17:26 I wonder if Map2XY could be "extended" to handle hab values and mincons, as well, then. Not so easily map2xy only changes, as the name suggests, the XY file. And that doesn't contain hab or MC information... (*Just* coordinates and names - unencrypted

I see. So, to change minconcs and habs it would need to poke inside the hst file, too, right?

Quote:

- and a bunch of encrypted, unchanging game information).

Including HW IDs, perhaps?

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 11:49

wumpus wrote on Wed, 05 April 2006 18:45 Not so easily map2xy only changes, as the name suggests, the XY file. And that doesn't contain hab or MC information... (*Just* coordinates and names - unencrypted I see. So, to change minconcs and habs it would need to poke inside the hst file, too, right?

Yep. Also, would be nice if host changed the m files. Even if you change only the HW locations with MapXY then starting ships are displayed quite oddly at turn 0.

Quote:

Quote: - and a bunch of encrypted, unchanging game information). Including HW IDs, perhaps?

AFAIK No. Things that you enter in new game wizard. Universe settings, game settings, number of players, victory conditions.

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Kotk wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 16:19

Quote: to change minconcs and habs it would need to poke inside the hst file, too, right? Yep. Also, would be nice if host changed the m files.

Definitely, not a work you want to do by hand.

Quote:

Even if you change only the HW locations with MapXY then starting ships are displayed quite oddly at turn 0.

Of course. I remember having read about that. If only playing around with HWs wasn't so interesting...

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 12 April 2006 10:49

Quote: - and a bunch of encrypted, unchanging game information). Including HW IDs, perhaps?

Nope; Leit is correct - the game parameters, including both starting and victory conditions, are the main things in there.

[Updated on: Wed, 12 April 2006 14:33]

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Kotk wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 19:01

Usual average concentration is about 60, at Radiation edge its maybe ~65.

Just a small doubt: is the minconc evenly distributed along all possible values when no high-Rad is involved? I.e: Is 1% as likely as 15%, 45%, 65%, 95%, 125% ?? Or is there some kind of Gaussian/Normal distribution curve?

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Kelzar wrote on Sat, 29 July 2006 12:58

http://members.cox.net/alan.kolaga/ if you scroll down and look at the minconc graphs you will see the distribution "curves", even distribution from 1 to 30 then a marked linear trend up from 31 to 75 then markedly down again from 76 to 119, high rad conditions will yield similar but not quite the same.

But that would mean minconcs between 30% and 40% are extremely rare for any given hab, woudln't it?

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m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 31 July 2006 18:05

But that would mean minconcs between 30% and 40% are extremely rare for any given hab, woudln't it?

Yup. The minconcs model is... weird.

EDIT: oops, that data is for ACCBBS, dunno why I just said it was -ACCBBS... Generating some -ACCBBS data now to see how it compares.

EDIT2: what was I smoking? The published data is for -ACCBBS... I've got to rebuild my ACCBBS data using a 'clean' copy of the worksheet as I hacked up the worksheets pretty badly when I was getting my hab-correlation data, so I don't trust the graphs any more - they could be graphing anything

{Mod edit: fixed quote}

[Updated on: Tue, 01 August 2006 04:39] by Moderator

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Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 31 July 2006 10:51

m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 31 July 2006 18:05 But that would mean minconcs between 30% and 40% are extremely rare for any given hab, woudln't it? Yup. The minconcs model is... weird. EDIT: oops, that data is for ACCBBS, dunno why I just said it was -ACCBBS... Generating some -ACCBBS data now to see how it compares. EDIT2: what was I smoking? The published data is for -ACCBBS... I've got to rebuild my ACCBBS data using a 'clean' copy of the worksheet as I hacked up the worksheets pretty badly when I was getting my hab-correlation data, so I don't trust the graphs any more - they could be graphing anything

That's what you get for living on high-rad worlds. High-energy particles must be downgrading your tought-processes.

Anyway, can you confirm that all mincons do indeed follow these strange patterns?

{Mod edit: fixed quote}

[Updated on: Tue, 01 August 2006 04:40] by Moderator

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