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poll.gif  Let the game continue! Mon, 27 March 2006 22:48 Go to next message
marco75 is currently offline marco75

 
Civilian

Messages: 3
Registered: October 2005
Location: Brisbane. Australia


Take arm2 off hold?[ 4 votes ]
1. Yes 2 / 50%
2. No 2 / 50%

So m.a. stars (People) has requested a do-over of the last turn, claiming some bug has prevented his fleet from attacking. Wether the bug is real or not, the game has been on hold for over a week.

Let's just keep playing. Come on, m.a., you can always attack me this turn. The 76th turn isn't suddenly going to turn the tide of the entire game, now is it.

I would like to continue playing, and having the game end because of a suspension is a unsatisfactory ending.

Please vote and let Stormlord know how you feel!

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Re: Let the game continue! Tue, 28 March 2006 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2760
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
marco75 wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 05:48

So m.a. stars (People) has requested a do-over of the last turn, claiming some bug has prevented his fleet from attacking.


Pls don't believe what others are falsely claiming is my goal. Evil or Very Mad I want to study and workaround the bug that's prevented two of my fleets from moving, and the ultimate goal is to avoid it happening in the future, to my fleets, to YOUR fleets, and to anybody's fleets. Nod

NOBODY will re-do this turn. A re-gen is NOT a re-do! Shocked

Unfortunately, it seems the Empty x and m files are entirely too valuable for their allies/masters the Scandics, who have so far successfully blocked any attempt to review them. That's raised the bar from a mere technical hurdle to something nastier, and I won't allow anyone extracting a benefit, however small, from an *unknown* *unfathomable* *unavoidable* bug. That would be cheating, wouldn't it?


Quote:

Wether the bug is real or not


If your eyes work at all, you already know the bug is more than real. Anybody who can compare their last two m files and find the nil differences in position for two of my fleets can see they didn't move at all. Hit Computer


Quote:

Let's just keep playing.


I want to play. What I won't do is playing in a game with one HUGE potential cheat more than advertised. Wall Bash


Quote:

Come on, m.a., you can always attack me this turn.


Of course, specially if your weak fleets keep moving at random and targeting my main fleets at their own risk. Twisted Evil


Quote:

The 76th turn isn't suddenly going to turn the tide of the entire game, now is it.


If a bug of this caliber is allowed to go unchecked, yes it will. Evil or Very Mad


Quote:

I would like to continue playing, and having the game end because of a suspension is a unsatisfactory ending.


It seems some ppl are not of your opinion and would rather end it now while they have at least an imaginary claim to victory. Razz

Thanks for your patience and understanding.


[Updated on: Tue, 28 March 2006 03:29]




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Let the game continue! Tue, 28 March 2006 03:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ptolemy is currently offline Ptolemy

 
Commander

Messages: 1008
Registered: September 2003
Location: Finland

Empty has every right to target any fleet he so wishes. If People simply sent their ships where they were wanted instead of trying to be fancy and make varous fleets follow each other all aover the place as he merges and splits fleets he wouldn't have a problem.

Since People know the orders of the Empty for the previous turn (as well as significant other outcomes) a re-gen would indeed have to allow for everyone to change the orders since nobody could be sure what People did for the new re-genned turn. Of course - it should only take a week or so before the whole thing goes on hold again for another imaginary bug since m.a. would probably lose someplace and claim his ships were suppsed to be there.

So far, nobody has been able to prove his claim from this complaint other than to figure it's his own error.

Ptolemy




Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: Let the game continue! Tue, 28 March 2006 04:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2760
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
Ptolemy wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 10:52

Empty has every right to target any fleet he so wishes.


Of course. And everybody else has every right to learn if there's a possible way to trigger a bug which will freeze their fleets in place no matter what they do. Evil or Very Mad


Quote:

If People simply sent their ships where they were wanted instead of trying to be fancy


Since when targeting one of your own stationary fleets is fancy? Are you suggesting any targeting of your own fleets be banned? Shocked


Quote:

and make varous fleets follow each other all aover the place as he merges and splits fleets he wouldn't have a problem.


ONE: I didn't do that. It has been proven to the satisfaction of all. Pls stop trying to confuse the issue.

TWO: even if I did, where in the manual/FaQ/wherever says it should be expected the fleets would simply not move? Hit Computer


Quote:

Since People know the orders of the Empty for the previous turn (as well as significant other outcomes)


Of course, and it of course doesn't matter at all. Razz


Quote:

a re-gen would indeed have to allow for everyone to change the orders since nobody could be sure what People did for the new re-genned turn.


You're wrong on that one, as has been repeatedly explained. A re-gen is not a re-do, no matter how many times you try to scare others into believing it is. Pls stop doing that.

As I originally asked, the simplest regen would involve ZERO changes for all files involved. If the bug was a pure random issue, it could conceivably be solved that way. Nod

IF the bug persisted, then our Host is more than able to open my x file and tweak the targeting orders (NOT their target, just their choice of ITEM in the coordinates of the target) from a stationary fleet to the planet this fleet is orbiting (and bombing out in the process). Nothing would change, except hopefully the bug itself. Deal

IF the bug persisted, our host would need to open the Empty x file and check whether it was possible to tweak their targeting in the same way as mine to get rid of the bug. If this stage was reached we would be talking about a very serious bug, with a very nasty potential for cheats, and every effort should be made to analyze it and its possible workarounds. Evil or Very Mad Whip

And of course, Ptolemy should be very interested in helping solve it, but, bizarrely enough, he's not. He'll even go out of his way to keep the whole thing under the heaviest lid. Again, WHY? Evil or Very Mad


Quote:

Of course - it should only take a week or so before the whole thing goes on hold again for another imaginary bug


Don't I wish it was imaginary. The Empty would have lost a third of their capital ships in one go. Twisted Evil

But for any bug of this caliber *ANY* game deserves to be stopped and carefully reviewed. Unless you don't care about how Stars! is played at all, that is.


Quote:

since m.a. would probably lose someplace and claim his ships were suppsed to be there.


You keep dreaming. Razz


Quote:

So far, nobody has been able to prove his claim from this complaint other than to figure it's his own error.


Our Host is not "nobody". Steve is not "nobody". I'm not "nobody". Pls stop trying to claim what is so easily disproved. Either help us solve the issue or SHUT UP.



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Let the game continue! Tue, 28 March 2006 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ptolemy is currently offline Ptolemy

 
Commander

Messages: 1008
Registered: September 2003
Location: Finland

The point here is that you case has not been proved - neither by Steve nor Storm - if it had, I suspect we would have heard by now from one of them.

I have no capacity to assist in finding out what happened since I would need all the files to do so. Since I am not a neutral in this game that task must go to others.

If you are getting your re-gen then Empty has every right to change his orders. He can not be expected to have a re-gen send his ships into now what is known as apparently certain destruction when in the current turn they were not destroyed.

Ptolemy




Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: Let the game continue! Tue, 28 March 2006 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2760
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
Ptolemy wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:41

The point here is that you case has not been proved - neither by Steve nor Storm - if it had, I suspect we would have heard by now from one of them.


You know very well both of them are experiencing technical difficulties directly affecting their online capabilities. Worse, Storm needs Ron to fetch the backup files, and that takes time, too.

So please stop betting nobody will be able to disprove your claims and/or prove mine.


Quote:

I have no capacity to assist in finding out what happened since I would need all the files to do so. Since I am not a neutral in this game that task must go to others.


You can at least answer the question: were any Scandic fleets targeting those two mutinous fleets of mine?

Also, you can stop muddying the issue, please.


Quote:

If you are getting your re-gen then Empty has every right to change his orders.


Why? As far as I know, this is the 1st game where such a condition has ever been proposed, much less accepted. Shocked

Quote:

He can not be expected to have a re-gen send his ships into now what is known as apparently certain destruction when in the current turn they were not destroyed.


Again, why not? He *knew* he was risking certain destruction when he targeted those fleets. Are you per chance implying he had any reasonable right to expect my fleets would *not* obey their orders? Sherlock



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Let the game continue! Wed, 29 March 2006 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Storm is currently offline Storm

 
Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:29

Ptolemy wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 15:41

The point here is that you case has not been proved - neither by Steve nor Storm - if it had, I suspect we would have heard by now from one of them.


You know very well both of them are experiencing technical difficulties directly affecting their online capabilities. Worse, Storm needs Ron to fetch the backup files, and that takes time, too.


I'm now on the case.
My main domain (and thus mailserver) is, for some reason, inaccessible to me at the moment (annoying? you betcha), so I cannot read the mail sent to primary account.

On the plus side, this means that I can now work on the problem (real work and a bitch of a new boss allowing) uninterrupted by tiresome e-mails... Wink

I will of course let y'all know the outcome of my research, as and when...



** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: Let the game continue! Tue, 11 April 2006 12:47 Go to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2760
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
Storm wrote on Wed, 29 March 2006 11:11

I will of course let y'all know the outcome of my research, as and when...


Micha has posted some interesting findings on the matter at The Academy:
http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=288 8&start=0&rid=625&S=dce6ec72e812bde40d0218886c5e 4917

It would seem now we can bypass the major roadblock, and a simple re-gen can indeed efortlessly and painlessly solve the issue, in fairness for *all* involved. Cheers

So, how many for (at long last) going on? Deal



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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