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I agree, WM makes better use of RS due to his extra speed. For me the 2 main advantages of RS are:

1) in the CC/BCC/BB period, when your enemy if using capital missiles, you get a better protection for your (base) armor, since every dp in armor not protected by shield is only worth 1/4 of its rating against missiles (or you can look it that way: every dp of armor protected by shield is worth 4 times more!

2) in the Nubian period you can just do without armor at all and the previous point applies even better (in the BB period, base armor is too low to be a good protection, you better win the initiative war)

IMHO the regenerating effect is quite a minor benefit.

FWIW,

YucaF

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yucaf wrote on Sat, 01 March 2003 17:51

I agree, WM makes better use of RS due to his extra speed. For me the 2 main advantages of RS are: 1) in the CC/BCC/BB period, when your enemy if using capital missiles, you get a better protection for your (base) armor, since every dp in armor not protected by shield is only worth 1/4 of its rating against missiles (or you can look it that way: every dp of armor protected by shield is worth 4 times more! 2) in the Nubian period you can just do without armor at all and the previous point applies even better (in the BB period, base armor is too low to be a good protection, you better win the initiative war)

You forgot:
0) Before CCs RS rocks too! Those shielded FFs get even more tougher to kill. True true your enemy should be using torps against them anyway, but the least you do with that (using FFs, not RS in particular) is forcing to use/waste his iron for ships with a very short life span.

Quote:

IMHO the regenerating effect is quite a minor benefit.

Not when you have battles with 1000s nubs (Imagine how may 1000s of dp get regenerated every turn). Your enemy might not have enough firepower to do more damage than your shields regenate! Saw that happen once, two beamer stacks, as good as equal IIRC, the RS one didn't lose a single ship

And I've won battles early on because of the regen effect too.

regards,
mch

[Updated on: Sat, 01 March 2003 12:43]

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Quote:

Just to let you all know the battle viewer displays the battle from the viewpoint of your Race. So if you have Regenerating shields and are playing a SS, then your battle VCR will display their shield rating as if it where RS (as well as their Armor) and will also say it has the inherent 75% cloak, even though your enemy may be an IS. The same goes for the non-RS JoAT trying to battle a RS WM, if there is a scout in the battle and you click to see what the ship is designed like, the scout will say it has a scanner even though it doesn't. So in other words don't evet trust the battle VCR, try to simulate them instead in a seperate game/directory.

No, the _ship_designer_ displays the enemy ship designs from your race point of view, not the _battle_viewer_.

So if you are RS and your opponent is not than you will see his ships with the correct non-RS values. BUT not always, _sometimes_ it happens that in the first moves the enemy will also look as if they where RS, this usually ends when a shot is fired ...

As for the WM bonus, clicking on a WM ship in the battle viewer shows the correct movement in the right pane, correct meaning +0.5 moves for the WM bonus. If you click on the "?" however you'll see the actual moves wihtout being WM.
If a WM clicks on a non-WM ship than the values in the left pane do NOT include the +0.5 move.

You're right about the JoaT and SS however, they indeed show respectively the scanning range and the cloacking,

kind regards,
mch

[Edit: changed "left" to "right" pane ]

[Updated on: Fri, 07 March 2003 16:06]

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Micha wrote on Sat, 01 March 2003 16:44

No, the _ship_designer_ displays the enemy ship designs from your race point of view, not the _battle_viewer_.

I'm WM. I design a small frigate with FM and 3 man. jets. Speed shown in the Ship Designer is the same as if I weren't WM (1.75): Incorrect In a battle I get 2.25 and escape the enemy's anti-scout DD

Ship design properties is a buggy area of Stars! There is no place in the game where you get all your stats correct for all PRTs in all situations. You better understand well how the whole thing works and ensure you know exactly what you get with your design. If you rely on those indications, you could get some bad surprises...

FWIW,

YucaF

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yucaf wrote on Mon, 03 March 2003 17:31

Micha wrote on Sat, 01 March 2003 16:44 No, the _ship_designer_ displays the enemy ship designs from your race point of view, not the _battle_viewer_. I'm WM. I design a small frigate with FM and 3 man. jets. Speed shown in the Ship Designer is the same as if I weren't WM (1.75): Incorrect In a battle I get 2.25 and escape the enemy's anti-scout DD

The ship designer for a WM race shows for the non-WM enemy designs the same stats for movement as for a his own WM designs, BOTH without the added bonus, so that's still from the point of view of the WM

regards,
mch

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Micha wrote on Mon, 03 March 2003 17:42

The ship designer for a WM race shows for the non-WM enemy designs the same stats for movement as for a his own WM designs, BOTH without the added bonus, so that's still from the point of view of the WM

Sorry then, I don't understand what you mean by "the point of view of the WM": I thought you meant the stats displayed are correct for the player looking at them (for example a WM would look at his designs with the correct speed displayed)

English is not my natural tongue. Would you mind to clarify?

Regards,

YucaF

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Quote:

Sorry then, I don't understand what you mean by "the point of view of the WM": I thought you meant the stats displayed are correct for the player looking at them (for example a WM would look at his designs with the correct speed displayed) English is not my natural tongue. Would you mind to clarify?

Well it isn't mine either, so we are two persons with two different languages communicating in a third one Looks like real aliens in Stars!

To summarize and clearify:

Ship designer shows incorrect values, examples:
-you are SS than every enemy ship design has 75% cloack
-you have RS than every enemy ship designs will look like it has RS
But:
-you are WM than NONE of the designs (nor enemy nor your own) show the added movement bonus

Battle viewer shows the correct values (clicking on the ship in the grid and looking at the values in the right pane, NOT clicking on the "?" that gives the ship designer values again) but has some temporary incorrect displays, examples:
-click on a WM ship and you'll see the +0.5, doesn't matter if you're a WM yourself or not
-click on an RS ship and you'll see the larger shielding, again doesn't matter if you have RS yourself. BUT when you _are_ RS there can be some problems, like in the first turn of a battle the other will also look RS while he is not, but this effect disappears at some point in the battle (at least in my experience ...)
(-cloacking is not shown since that doesn't matter in battle)

regards,
mch

[Updated on: Wed, 05 March 2003 01:53]

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