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It looks like it might be quite nice, particularly as Java is my language of choice for this sort of thing. I'll have to wait till Java 1.5 comes out for my operating system before I try it though.

Is there any chance of source code? My experience being that things without source code eventually becomes orphaned

Cheers,
Madman

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At last a reaction ! And even a positive one. Thank you Madman.

About the source code, I am not sure if I will open source it or not. I know about the risk of the code becoming orphaned. I agree with you on that point. This was one of the reason why I didn't advertise the tech browser while it was in developpement : I was not sure when I would have the time to complete it.

If I loose all interest in this code, I'll make the source public. I think that in the current state, the code is not of great interest : who is interested by just a tech browser ?

I have already created 2 others open source projects. The programs are used by people in a small community (though I think that the Stars! community is wider). My experience is that there is no interest in source code. Nobody is contributing to my other projects.

Orion

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I only have 1.4 on my computer. I understand 1.5 is still beta so you might not have many users until it is released. Nice to see the screenshots though!

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Your HTML tech browser is well done.

How static is the information ? How difficult (or how easy ) is it to change information ?

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PricklyPea wrote on Wed, 08 February 2006 18:16

It is as dynamic as I could make it without too much work. I basically dump data from the EXE directly into a database and put a web front end to it. For certain qualities not in the raw data, I have to adjust the script manually.

Cool.

I'd like to know two things:

1) What are those "qualities" not present in the EXE itself.

2) Could there be a "master page" for, say, "all weapons" or "all hulls", or even "all items", instead of just a myriad links?

[Updated on: Fri, 24 February 2006 04:02]

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PricklyPea wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 12:28

1) The EXE has tables of data on the items. This can be dumped. However, it does not have extra things e.g. enigma pulsar has engine stats such as fuel usage, but cloaking and MJ ability is hardcoded via a check. Therefore, any tech viewer needs to implement this separately.

I see. So, it's only (or mainly) MT items, then?

I compiled years ago a few html pages comprising most items (including MT), with stats, tech reqs and icons and all. Static, of course, but I've been toying with the idea of turning them dynamic (using that allitems table + some simple javascript code) since forever.

One of these weekends, perhaps...

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m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 06:38

I see. So, it's only (or mainly) MT items, then?

Mainly. Pen scan ranges on scanners are hard-coded etc. I guess there are many exceptions which becomes a pain. PRT/LRT restrictions are also hard-coded.

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PricklyPea wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 13:21

m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 06:38 I see. So, it's only (or mainly) MT items, then? Mainly. Pen scan ranges on scanners are hard-coded etc. I guess there are many exceptions which becomes a pain. PRT/LRT restrictions are also hard-coded.

Ouch. So, a secondary table for penscans, and another for MT items... And of course the one for PRT/LRT influences on tech. Are there any more things to take into account?

- - - - - - -

While tinkering with the main allitems table (as extracted from the EXE) in order to display it in a nice flat html page, I noticed a few things:
- penscan ranges for planetary scanners can be guessed by manipulating the negative range shown.
- penscan ranges for ship scanners need a secondary table, but there's only 3 items in that one.
- most (or all) PRT/LRT-specific or MT items are clearly labelled as such, wich makes it relatively easy to link them to the extra info needed.
- The MJ and OT carry a wrong "class" flag, possibly inherited from other, earlier gadgets.
- All cloaks carry bit-packed "property" flags, possibly telling stealth percentages, and/or PRT restrictions, but I don't know yet how to decode these.
- Planetary defenses also carry "property" info which might be the base percentage of defense of individual defenses against one or both types of bombs. No time to delve into these, eiter, yet.
- Ship and starbase hulls carry bitpacked slot info which I think I know how to decode, but I'm not sure how to display.
- Engine fuel tables should be easier to display once I can decide on how to do it.
- Explanatory text and/or images (if any) for each item must come from another source.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 February 2006 05:21]

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Orion wrote on Sun, 05 February 2006 18:59

Some people interested in the Technology Browser told me that they don't have Java 1.5 installed on their computer. To give them a better feel of what the Etoiles 0.1 is, I have added more screenshots at my site : http://pascal.wassong.free.fr/Etoiles/Etoiles.html Orion

It looks pretty nice, indeed. I hope you continue to develop it, as well as the Stars! client itself.

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- penscan ranges for planetary scanners can be guessed by manipulating the negative range shown.

Yup. Planetary penscans are shown negative so easy to calculate.

- penscan ranges for ship scanners need a secondary table, but there's only 3 items in that one.

True. In my crabby mod, I alter the code to read penscans directly from the information tables and update the items directly there.

- All cloaks carry bit-packed "property" flags, possibly telling stealth percentages, and/or PRT restrictions, but I don't know yet how to decode these.

This is documented in the guts of cloaking (and also the help files). There's a non-linear formula for cloaking.

- Ship and starbase hulls carry bitpacked slot info which I think I know how to decode, but I'm not sure how to display.
- Engine fuel tables should be easier to display once I can decide on how to do it.

If you write php code to do the display either of the above, I would be interested in incorporating into the starpedia.

- Explanatory text and/or images (if any) for each item must come from another source.

I'll be adding commenting ability to starpedia.

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PricklyPea wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 15:02

- All cloaks carry bit-packed "property" flags, possibly telling stealth percentages, and/or PRT restrictions, but I don't know yet how to decode these. This is documented in the guts of cloaking (and also the help files). There's a non-linear formula for cloaking.

Thanks for the heads up. I had little time to think of perusing the good ole' helpfile. Amazing what one can forget.

Turns out the math is quite simple. The down side is the SS cloaks seem to lack any clear telltale of their PRT-exclusiveness.

Quote:

If you write php code to do the display either of the above, I would be interested in incorporating into the starpedia.

Who needs php when you have JavaScript?

I can hijack some of my habtool code (actually, Henk Poel's code) to display the fuel graphs. I guess the Defense curves would not be too hard, either, provided I had a clue about the math they follow. Ship slots, now that would be fun, but probably out of the scope of my still-quite-plain-and-simple itemdata dumper.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 February 2006 10:43]

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>Who needs php when you have JavaScript?

Javascript is also fine, but with php, I can link to the backend database so that the starpedia automatically updates for mods (I'll be preparing a separate starpedia for my new mod).

>Ship slots, now that would be fun, but probably out of the scope of my still-quite-plain-and-simple itemdata dumper.

I've got the details of how to decode the ship slots, but hate writing UI code so if someone is willing to do that, then we have enough skill knowledge to do it combined

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PricklyPea wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 16:22

>Who needs php when you have JavaScript? Javascript is also fine, but with php, I can link to the backend database so that the starpedia automatically updates for mods (I'll be preparing a separate starpedia for my new mod).

Heh, I use a statically-generated js table for that. I could "upgrade" it to copy-paste inside a form (Javascript has its limits), but as long as items don't change more than once a day, it's simple enough...

Quote:

>Ship slots, now that would be fun, but probably out of the scope of my still-quite-plain-and-simple itemdata dumper. I've got the details of how to decode the ship slots, but hate writing UI code so if someone is willing to do that, then we have enough skill knowledge to do it combined

The is in the details, as they say. I got some old specs on how to tell kinds of slots and number of items they hold. Things like location are hazier. I wouldn't mind tinkering with your recipe book for these. And you'd be amazed how simple it can be drawing square boxes with plain old portable html.

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Quote:

The is in the details, as they say. I got some old specs on how to tell kinds of slots and number of items they hold. Things like location are hazier. I wouldn't mind tinkering with your recipe book for these. And you'd be amazed how simple it can be drawing square boxes with plain old portable html.

yeah. it's actually quite easy when you look at the raw data. the location data is just in the form of xy offsets in high nibble/low nibble defining (from memory) the top left corner of the box. Also, the offsets aren't from zero (StarsEd shows you the offsets in the diagram).

Would be quite nice to be able to read the ship data and then to convert it into a html diagram.

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PricklyPea wrote on Mon, 27 February 2006 20:29

Would be quite nice to be able to read the ship data and then to convert it into a html diagram.

I'm almost there!

Along the way, I've found that the "init" byte is actually encoding hull initiative in the lower 6 bits plus something else in the upper 2 bits, interestingly akin to "ship class" info.

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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 01 March 2006 07:33

Along the way, I've found that the "init" byte is actually encoding hull initiative in the lower 6 bits plus something else in the upper 2 bits, interestingly akin to "ship class" info.

A problem with all the bitpacking that goes on is that it makes things less human readable within a hex editor.

BTW, how do you know if it is 6 bits? I wondered whether it was 4,5,6 or some other number. I guess the Deathstar implies that it is at least 5 bits - but I haven't checked any code to verify.

[Mod edit: fixed quote]

[Updated on: Sun, 05 March 2006 18:09] by Moderator

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