Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » InSanity
| InSanity |
Mon, 30 January 2006 10:46  |
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 wizard |
 | Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 279
Registered: January 2004
Location: Aachen, Germany | |
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Hi Sr. Seven,
I don't think you will get enough advanced players. Two reasons:
- The schedule will be too strict for most - having one turn a day (weekends off?) is a lot from about year 2440 on.
- I know many experienced players, me among them, won't play if the host is playing. Perhaps you can find someone else to host the game?
Regards,
Andreas / wizard
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| Re: Sanity |
Thu, 02 February 2006 13:56  |
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| mlaub |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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| Ron wrote on Thu, 02 February 2006 11:45 |
I certainly didn't mean to start a witch-hunt with my post.
I apologize for the tone of my posts which colored, I'm sure, other people's posts and for my attack of paranoia, which I believe is pretty rare. Please forgive me.
I've deleted the negative posts in this thread in hopes of restarting the process, and have unlocked this topic.
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 Maybe I should be offended now. I've been looking for a game to join for a while. I ask for an email address to send my race along, in case I decide make a race, and I end up getting diss'd by Sr. Seven, then Ron.  I'm only glad that the thread got unlocked, so I could comment.
Ah well, maybe I'll host a game myself...
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: Sanity |
Thu, 02 February 2006 14:02 |
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| NingunOtro |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 105
Registered: September 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium | |
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I agree there certainly was no intention involved, Ron, but there is a certain general attitude that makes it very hard for newcomers to feel welcome.
Sr.Seven deserved to be presumed innocent of anything (even imaginary things in most of the posters heads) until EVIDENCE showed up AND he could be PROVEN guilty.
But a few short-minded guys had to project their fears without understanding (or even caring about) that Sr.Seven lacked any background information to understand what they were talking about. He only saw paranoia and a frontal attack on his dignity without any understandable reason.
I know the feeling, I had the same reaction when I visited the stars newsgroup for the first time (haven't been back there since).
And I can not say I feel very welcome here neither. As a rationalist, I do not mind not being hugged, but I feel uncomfortable when behaviour does not follow predictable or even understandable human standards. Sometimes I get the idea that it does not even matter how many words one carefully connects together to make sure absolutely everybody can understand what one wants to say. There is always the few that show with two words that they have no damn brain or do not care to use it.
So, this thread may perhaps serve the purpose of discussing matters here, but I doubt Sr.Seven will be looking back expecting anybody's apology. It just went too far, too fast.
If we were esteemed intelligent 'enough', they would have contacted us.
If we can not find them, either we are not smart enough, or they are smarter at hiding.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Sanity |
Thu, 02 February 2006 14:51 |
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| BlueTurbit |
 | Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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| Ron wrote on Thu, 02 February 2006 11:45 |
...and for my attack of paranoia, which I believe is pretty rare.
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Yep. There was a time when your paranoia took months to fully develop. Muuuaahahahaha.
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Sanity |
Thu, 02 February 2006 15:03 |
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| mlaub |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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| NingunOtro wrote on Thu, 02 February 2006 13:05 |
No, but perhaps you should feel ashamed ... some day.
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For what reason?
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The thread certainly had not entered a stage where providing an email address was relevant.
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Why should I care what others thought? I make up my own mind on these things. Besides, if you don't submit a race, you don't reserve a slot. I had intended to submit first, ask questions later. Why? cause I have missed out on at least 2 games in the last 6 mos cause I was still thinking about joining, and suddenly the game was filled, with people waiting in the sidelines too. Better to submit first, and then start asking questions.
Very few games come along with:
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Alliances Legal but Can't Win
Victory:
Single Player Victory Only
Victor to be Last Standing
Using chaff in battle or in sweeping, or splitting fleets to avoid action are legitimate tactics.
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This is the type of game I like, plus the size seemed managable, and the host had good rules for CA and JOAT to boot. Game was to be played on AH... So excuse me for not joining the mob. And pardon me for not waiting till you and everyone else, including the host, were ready for me to move past the accusations and post such a silly question.
Next time I'll try to be more petty. Shhsh 
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: Sanity |
Fri, 03 February 2006 01:02 |
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| NingunOtro |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 105
Registered: September 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium | |
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| Ashlyn wrote on Thu, 02 February 2006 20:35 |
I believe Ron was trying to get the game going again.
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That is so damn obvious it should only be necessary to remind to someone brainless. Is that some sort of hint?
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Can you officially speak for Sr. Seven, Ningun?
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Probably not. Did Sr.Seven provide any type of clue that allow you to think he might know me or viceversa? But again, as obviously nobody has been oficially appointed as Sr.Sevens representative, this may also be interpreted as some kind of hint. I can speak for myself when I give my opinion on what I think about the fact of continuing with a given game setup when the original proponent has withdrawn the offer. Something along the line of considering the game more important than the person.
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and.. donjon knew extremely well of the prior posts even though they've been deleted.
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bingo! You got me nailed down here! Of course donjon signed up yesterday and is just a newbie trying to join the first game aparently available.
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Please, all additional posts be about the game. Any more discussion regarding "what has been happening here" can be directed to a room other than New Games Announcements and will be split accordingly.
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May I suggest a different approach?
Considering the content of the thread, the whole of it (including if possible the deleted posts, for understandabilities sake) should go to the bar (just suggesting one possible place, I have no veto on alternatives). Then a clean game offer could be posted here with a link pointing to where the off-topic discussion is being continued.
You obviously have the administrative rights to provide the necessary, and hereby I grant you my personal authorization to move MY posts to wherever you see fit.
the Devil's lawyer.
If we were esteemed intelligent 'enough', they would have contacted us.
If we can not find them, either we are not smart enough, or they are smarter at hiding.Report message to a moderator
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 Re: InSanity |
Mon, 06 February 2006 05:17 |
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| NingunOtro |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 105
Registered: September 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium | |
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Hay Sr.Seven
I'm glad you have the intellectual guts to come back, against all odds.
Obviously, nothing of what has happened had anything to do with your own behaviour, but with the paranoia and selfishness of some arbitrary people who decided they had the right to project their selfish fears and wishes on the issue without care but for themselves. After that, everybody is human and some well-intended people have made mistakes too.
It takes some analysis (joining date of people involved and number of posts, for instance) to understand what is going on and why some people behave the way they do. Of course, not having the complete thread available doesn't make that easy at all.
It took me some time to find out where they had housed this part of the thread, as it is not trivial to look for it in the hosting forum.
Anyway, I'm glad you are back so at least I do not have to face trial against my intervention without primary witness. 
Welcome and good luck! 
PS: Maybe the title you choose for that game gives us a clue as to why this real insanity did not affect you as much as could have been expected.
If we were esteemed intelligent 'enough', they would have contacted us.
If we can not find them, either we are not smart enough, or they are smarter at hiding.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: InSanity |
Mon, 06 February 2006 11:21 |
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| mlaub |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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| Sr.Seven wrote on Sun, 05 February 2006 22:56 |
The race file could have been sent via PM if the player had been interested. Still could be actually . . .
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I guess you are right. However, It is not something I use that often and it did not occur to me. I prefer email. Perhaps if you had suggested that earlier, instead of assuming it was an attack, I'd feel differently at the moment.
As to joining the game now, no thanks. I had another offer for a game that will be starting in a month. It will give me a little time to think about a race, too. Plus, I didn't really understand the voting part (see below).
As to my comments that I had held back, here ya go. Answering might help get players.
1. You make no mention if you will be sending a def file along with the races to Ron, or a third party like Micha, so they can create the game. I suggest you clarify this point, either way.
2. As I mentioned, I like the rules to this game. However, if you find 2+ races co-operating in such a way that it is obvious that 1+ of them is sacrificing his chance of winning, just to have the illusion of being on the "winning" side, what will be done about it?
3. The whole vote thing... I don't get it. So, at Y2461 race1 and race5 vote for race1, the rest vote for themselfs. Game is over then? Race1 wins? Or, if you meant 3 out of 5 for a majority... race1, race4, race5 vote for race1, the rest vote for themselfs. Game is over then? Race1 wins?
Good luck
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: InSanity |
Mon, 06 February 2006 16:51 |
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| Sr.Seven |
 | Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 67
Registered: January 2006 | |
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| mlaub wrote on Mon, 06 February 2006 11:21 |
| Sr.Seven wrote on Sun, 05 February 2006 22:56 |
The race file could have been sent via PM if the player had been interested. Still could be actually . . .
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I guess you are right. However, It is not something I use that often and it did not occur to me. I prefer email. Perhaps if you had suggested that earlier, instead of assuming it was an attack, I'd feel differently at the moment.
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As I recall, your post came shortly after the first suggestion that I might be/probably was trolling. And while The original post appears lost, I seem to recall the tone as negative and aimed at providing support to the troll claim by adding a "he hasn't even given an email" or some such.
You certainly did not say : "I'd like to join. Where should I send my race file."
Personally I doubt you ever planned to join the game.
The rest below you probably SHOULD have posted in the sanity thread. I may copy it in later.
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1. You make no mention if you will be sending a def file along with the races to Ron, or a third party like Micha, so they can create the game. I suggest you clarify this point, either way.
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I am/was strongly considering it after Wizard's post. If it is a dealbreaker for any players who have announced an intent to join, i certainly will. I am not stuck on the idea of being a player host. . . but I certainly want to play in a game with roughly these specifications.
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2. As I mentioned, I like the rules to this game. However, if you find 2+ races co-operating in such a way that it is obvious that 1+ of them is sacrificing his chance of winning, just to have the illusion of being on the "winning" side, what will be done about it?
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I'm only planning to declare one winner. If somebody takes perverse pleasure in letting said winner walk on their back, I don't really see a way to stop it short of the Death Penalty.
Seriously though, what would you do?
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3. The whole vote thing... I don't get it. So, at Y2461 race1 and race5 vote for race1, the rest vote for themselfs. Game is over then? Race1 wins? Or, if you meant 3 out of 5 for a majority... race1, race4, race5 vote for race1, the rest vote for themselfs. Game is over then? Race1 wins?
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Yes. Diplomatic victory. I doubt that such a thing would happen before the 2550s though.
One worrying thought. . . Imagine that in 2460 6th place separately offers to trade con26 scrappers to each of the top 5 races in exchange for their vote in 2461. . .
Perfectly legal, but not particularly likely.
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| Re: InSanity |
Mon, 06 February 2006 17:51 |
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If somebody takes perverse pleasure in letting said winner walk on their back, I don't really see a way to stop it short of the Death Penalty.
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3. The whole vote thing... I don't get it. So, at Y2461 race1 and race5 vote for race1, the rest vote for themselfs. Game is over then? Race1 wins? Or, if you meant 3 out of 5 for a majority... race1, race4, race5 vote for race1, the rest vote for themselfs. Game is over then? Race1 wins?
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Yes. Diplomatic victory. I doubt that such a thing would happen before the 2550s though.
One worrying thought. . . Imagine that in 2460 6th place separately offers to trade con26 scrappers to each of the top 5 races in exchange for their vote in 2461. . .
Perfectly legal, but not particularly likely.
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I recommend requiring 3 of 5 votes for victory - otherwise it is too easy for such perverse player to ruin game - any player could end game in first vote just by voting for another player.
With the scrappers trade... I'd make a return offer to the player to vote for them in 2501 instead, and make sure they were dead by then 
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| Re: InSanity |
Mon, 06 February 2006 18:09 |
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| mlaub |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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| Sr.Seven wrote on Mon, 06 February 2006 15:51 |
And while The original post appears lost, I seem to recall the tone as negative and aimed at providing support to the troll claim by adding a "he hasn't even given an email" or some such.
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That would be incorrect. It was not intended to be negative. I believe it was something like "I don't see an email address. What is your email address?" or something as neutral. I figured you'd have given me a yahoo account or something, since you want to remain anonomous. If I was trying to be a dick, I would have added something about not accepting a generic email addresses.
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You certainly did not say : "I'd like to join. Where should I send my race file."
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And you didn't respond with "If you would like to Join, please PM me the file". You got into the heat of the moment. Whatever.
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Personally I doubt you ever planned to join the game.
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There is really no reason for me to lie about this. You can believe what you want, though.
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I'm only planning to declare one winner. If somebody takes perverse pleasure in letting said winner walk on their back, I don't really see a way to stop it short of the Death Penalty.
Seriously though, what would you do?
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Actually, I was hoping you had a new idea on the subject. These type of players really ruin it for me. All well and good for a team game, or alliance allowed victory, but really sleasy for a Single player win game IMO.
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Yes. Diplomatic victory. I doubt that such a thing would happen before the 2550s though.
One worrying thought. . . Imagine that in 2460 6th place separately offers to trade con26 scrappers to each of the top 5 races in exchange for their vote in 2461. . .
Perfectly legal, but not particularly likely.
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Could prove to be a very short game. Which is why I was asking.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: InSanity |
Mon, 06 February 2006 19:12 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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<starting to dance around everyones toes>
As for the whole situation that popped up, I must say that I was baffled by some of the reactions in the first thread (most of them deleted), the speed with which Sr.Seven was labeled as cheater/troll was ... well ... 
He was maybe a bit more holding back his identity than others and we had a bad experience with a cheating host, but that's hardly an excuse.
To tell the truth if those would have been the reactions on my first post ... I doubt I would ever have showed my face again.
As for the game, Sr.Seven said somewhere (deleted?) that he's hosting the game he'd like to play in (I think that was mainly regarding the gen shedule) and he that is it's full right. Heck, that's the main reason why I host games ...
Though I think everybody understands that and any comments were IMHO just suggestions, unfortunately in the heat regarded as critisism. I'm not going into detail here, I'm trying to find closure, not stir things up again.
(And I surely don't want to preach, don't want to pretend I know it all, ... just keep in mind is that what you see is plain text, here and there a smily but still a limited medium to express emotions, moods, feelings, tones, ...)
I've moved this to the Bar, a better place for it, Ashlyn couldn't since she can't moderate in the Bar. And I'd like to ask to keep discussions related to the game in the game thread (like Sr.Seven also already mentioned), things like the voting, player relations etc. The forum software does not support "splitting and merging" of threads, only split. Placing everything between quotes in the game announcement looks messy.
Now everybody have a drink and relax. (Ron has a new kid! Drinks are on him!)
mch,
modaw
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| Re: InSanity |
Mon, 06 February 2006 20:08 |
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| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1207
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| Micha wrote on Tue, 07 February 2006 01:12 |
I must say that I was baffled by some of the reactions in the first thread (most of them deleted), the speed with which Sr.Seven was labeled as cheater/troll was ... well ...
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Games here are based on mutual trust. We all know there are many exploits/bugs/cheats that can ruin the game, but because we trust each other to not use any we can still play our games, and enjoy them.
Sr.Seven claimed he played and hosted here, in our community, but denied to give any more info about his history here. That was what I felt strange: if he's really just a long time absent player, he should understand our need of trust. By just saying his nickname he would instantly get his former status and likely quite some "welcome back!" greetings. But he didn't. Instead he flamed back.
I'm sorry, but that's the behaviour I would not expect from a person who wants to rejoin his former community. So call me paranoid or whatever, this is how I feel.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Mon, 06 February 2006 20:11] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: InSanity |
Mon, 06 February 2006 23:19 |
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| Sr.Seven |
| Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 67
Registered: January 2006 | |
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| iztok wrote on Mon, 06 February 2006 20:08 |
Games here are based on mutual trust. We all know
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Then in the name of full disclosure: did you plan to join the game? If I were to PM you enough personal info, would you have then signed up?
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rejoin his former community.
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With a few very specific exceptions, i don't think that this is actually MY former community. It is rather a completely different community that happens to have the same name. And I feel so welcome.
[Updated on: Mon, 06 February 2006 23:39] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Sanity
, to the detriment and extreme annoyance of a respected (although a bit of a cynic) member of the Stars! community. Now that its 'fully' developed, 
