Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » New game for all
| New game for all |
Fri, 13 January 2006 10:22  |
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 rsitaly |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 24
Registered: October 2005
Location: ITALY | |
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From the beginning our races have spread through the Galaxy without any limitations ... now it is the time to have leaders in order to put order, to create and enforce rules and laws so our Galaxy will have stability and it will be able to prosper and to defend itself from an enemy coming from another Galaxy.
So we are SEARCHING FOR THE GALAXY'S RULERS ... the race that will guide all of us for thousands years to come.
Game parameters:
HOSTED on AUTOHOST (HOST will play)
GENERATION: max 24 hours between generations.
NUMBER OF PLAYERS: until 16
PLAYER SKILL LEVEL: ALL
UNIVERSE SIZE: from MEDIUM to HUGE (will depends on how many players I'll find)
DENSITY: PACKED
PLAYER POSITIONS: DISTANT
OPTIONS: ACCELERATED BBS PLAY
NO PUBLIC PLAYER SCORE!
PRT: no CA allowed!
LRT: no limitations
NO PRE-GAME ALLIANCES!
Trade, diplomacy, technology exchange and alliances are permitted and encouraged.
Only the following cheats are allowed:
- CHAFF
- SPLIT FLEET DODGE
Other cheats are not allowed and the player using them will be banned.
VICTORY CONDITIONS:
OWNS 40% OF ALL PLANETS
ATTAINS TECH 22 IN 4 FIELDS
EXCEEDS SECOND PLACE SCORE BY 40%
HAS THE HIGHEST SCORE AFTER 80 YEARS
WINNER MUST MEET 2 OF THE ABOVE CRITERIA
AT LEAST 80 YEARS MUST BE PASSED BEFORE A WINNER IS DECLARED
If interested, drop me a message at:
cobra@mtnspa.com
Roberto
[Updated on: Fri, 13 January 2006 10:54] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game for all |
Tue, 24 January 2006 02:48  |
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| rsitaly |
| Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 24
Registered: October 2005
Location: ITALY | |
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THE GAME IS ABOUT TO START!
TO ALL PLAYERS ... please send me your race file (password protected) generated with the release 2.7JRC3; will play in a HUGE universe.
Roberto
[Updated on: Tue, 24 January 2006 02:49] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game for all |
Wed, 25 January 2006 12:08 |
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| Iconian |
 | Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA | |
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I like the idea of a huge universe. I've played lots of huge games with just the AI. It takes a long while, but with humans I think it would be really interesting. Huge empires can produce lots of ships and lost for ages.
However, I'd have to agree with one of the posters about the "Attains tech 22 in 4 fields" requirement. I know that there are several other requirements, but consider this: all the winning player has to do, a few years before 2480, is gear his whole economy toward research to fill the tech requirement. The player could easily stop building all ships and instead opt to dump all resources into research. By the 2480 year mark the game would already be decided, with nothing any other player could do about it.
Why would this be the case? A huge universe is too big to have a "22 in 4 fields" requirement. Level 22 will be a piece of cake, with tons of producing worlds. Significant warring won't even have started yet. After the initial years of expansion the players can all turn inward in a race toward tech 22.
Now, I know this has already been brought up. This isn't an issue of whether you "give in" or hold your ground on this. To me, it's only fair to the other players to give us a real game. I want huge empires and giant border wars and thousands of ships and alliances. In this game we'll see practically none of that. Why fight a war when you can just do some research?
In a huge, I think 2480 is about the time the fun should begins not when the game ends, and with the tech requirement, the game will end before anything significant.
As to experts, firstly, they are unlikely to play in this game. If they do, they themselves would gear a race that could get the tech requirement quickly. Why fight when you can go for the quick win? An expert would get the win without any real chance for other players.
This is, of course, your game. You set the requirements. But consider that this game is almost certainly not going to last for very long. A race to tech 22 in 4 fields won't take someone very long, especially with a couple allies doing tech trade, or someone with a decent economy and cheap, or even normal, in four fields.
Of course, some people get bored of playing a huge universe so long. At least for them they can have a guarantee that the game will end quickly.
So, it's up to you in the end.l Make your choice, but I thought I should tell you the path I see the game taking.
Yeah, bread too.
Don't Let the Stars! Fade AwayReport message to a moderator
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| Re: New game for all |
Wed, 25 January 2006 20:33 |
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I would agree that 22 in 4 fields isn't much for a huge game...but what about 26 in all fields? Its fairly rare for prop to go beyond 16 , Energy to go beyond 22 or bio to go beyond 4 unless you're SD or have TT. Players would have to choose between going for the tech win or fighting it out...or both
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| Re: New game for all |
Thu, 26 January 2006 02:08 |
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He has basically set a time limit for game to end at turn 80 or soon after. I am not sure that is such a bad thing, in a universe the size of this beast the micromanagment could be a burden.... They can always agree to keep fighting after official game over if it is still fun.
Note that winner needs to meet 2 criteria to win so for example both highest score after turn 80, AND either beat second place by 40% OR 3 techs at 22 level.
In theory it is possible for a tie on turn 80, where a -F, HE PRT, or similar spread out race owns 40% of planets and has 3 techs over 22, while another has highest score by 40%.
[Updated on: Thu, 26 January 2006 02:20] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game for all |
Thu, 26 January 2006 02:36 |
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| Iconian |
| Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA | |
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After my post above I got some emails from Roberto about the game, as well as some other people's ideas about what the victory conditions should be. I emailed out an idea I had in response to all this, on the fly while I was at work. I think it may have been a little bit confusing, so I decided to try to say it a little more understandably. By no means has what I'm about to write been decided upon for the game. I simply offer it as one possibility that could incorporate what several different people want to see in this game.
(In case you don't want to read this whole post, first read the first paragraph, then scroll down to the last paragraph: Summary.)
First things first, for future reference.
Definitions and Conditions of Defeat
An "alliance" is formed when two or more players set each other to "Friend" under Player Relations. A single race is not considered to be an alliance. When I call an alliance "defeated," I mean that alliance has no remaining members (all members have formally dropped out), or the alliance has negotiated a formal surrender to another alliance or player.
When I refer to a player as "defeated," I mean that the player either has no remaining planets for a period of five consecutive years; the player has become inactive and stopped sending turns in for five consecutive turns without previously informing the host; or the player negotiates a formal surrender with another player or alliance. If any of those conditions is met the host will no longer accept .x files from that player. If it is the third stage of the game a player is defeated as soon as they have no remaining planets, rather than allowing five additional years for recolonization. Also, breaking game rules can result in a player's turn being skipped one or more times. Multiple offenses may result in the player's removal from the game, which is the same as a defeat. Finally, in the event of a draw the players/alliances that announce it receive neither the points nor titles associated with a win.
Now, it seems like everyone wants something different out of this game. Some people want huge wars and alliances; some people want wars and alliances of limited size; some people want there to be no alliances at all; some people want to be able to declare an alliance win; and some people want the winner to be declared by the game.
For me personally, I certainly want there to be alliances. I've played lots of games against the computer and right now I'm involved in a duel with another player, but none of these situations has allowed for any diplomacy, so I'd really REALLY like to be able to have alliances.
However, I think I also understand the other side of it (and correct me if I'm wrong). Group attacks against a single player often seem unfair--there's rarely a way for a single player to defend against several attackers without being part of an alliance himself.
Now, I know that you can never make everbody happy. Someone will always disagree with something. However, we can attempt to come to some sort of agreement, a compromise that can fulfill several of the desired conditions. What I propose is a three-stage game where each is optional for the players to continue with or bug out of. The stages go as follows.
Stage One: Meet Three Championship
The host will set the following victory conditions:
Owns 15% of all planets (this could be changed later to better fit the number of players and planets)
Attains Tech 22 in 4 fields
Exceeds a score of 11000
Exceeds second place score by 100%
Has a production capacity of 100,000
Owns 100 capital ships
Has the highest score after 80 years
Winner must meet 3 of the above criteria
At least 80 years must pass before a winner is declared
By setting victory conditions like this, we can accomplish two things. First, as soon as a winner is declared anyone who wants to can exit the game. They can cease sending their turns in anytime within five years of the beginning of Stage Two and not be considered defeated. If someone leaves the game at any other point, excepting also the start of Stage Three, they are considered defeated and their .x files are no longer accepted by the host.
The second reason is something that Roberto said, in an email I think: each player will be able to choose his own path to victory. You wouldn't have to be worried about reaching a goal that would be nigh impossible for your race choice. You might get tech 22 in 4, build 100 capital ships, and also have a score over 11,000; or you might have 15% of the planets, have the highest score after 80 years, and have double the second place score. Most anybody could win: everyone will be able to determine their own path to victory.
Especially during this stage, one thing I personally think would make it more interesting and competitive would be to have PPS on. Realizing that a particular player is about to win Stage One, another could make a few vital strikes that could delay that player long enough for someone else to win Stage One.
I think two things are necessary during this period. Someone wanted alliances to be limited to two players each. With such a limit no one would really have to worry about being overwhelmed early on by a large number of foes. Group attacks could at most only be conducted by one alliance of two members. So, for Stage One, each player may only have one other player set to "Friend."
The second thing for this period of time (Stage One only) is that although capital ships can be built, they cannot be used for anything but defense. What do I mean, and why would we want it that way?
Anyone can build as many capital ships as they want. On the offensive, no capital ships can be utilized. Any ship with a battle rating over 2,000, as well as all battleships, dreadnoughts, nubians, and the MT Lifeboat must either be kept currently orbiting a planet of the empire, or the host must be able to tell with certainty that the ship is headed toward a planet of the empire that has the player's population on it--not toward an uncontrolled planet, or a planet with remote miners, or even an allied planet.
Basically, this would give great incentive for Stage One to be almost entirely defensive, allowing all players the opportunity to reach all the victory conditions, and to reach Stage Two. Players could only use weaker ships to attack, and against a force of capital ships, etc, such vessels would almost certainly not be victorious. Of course, it would also mean that the host would have to verify alliance members and capital ships every turn. Maybe he could have assistance in doing so. Would anyone not actually playing in the game like to volunteer for checking to make sure this condition is fulfilled by all players during stage one? If not, then we might see a lot of players dying off before any victory is declared, which would not allow all the opportunity to win Stage One.
Once a winner is declared by the game, the winner is formally titled CHAMPION OF STARS. If he shares the win with an ally, the ally is declared CHAMPION IN CONCERT, and the alliance is declared the CHAMPIONSHIP ALLIANCE. Stage Two can then begin.
Stage Two: Alliance Domination Victory
Once stage two begins, players can use their dusty ole BB's, nubs, and DN's to smash anything they want. Any players who don't want to stick around for this giant war can leave the game within five years of the beginning of Stage Two without being thought any lesser for it. Any other time, except the beginning of Stage Three, they would be considered defeated.
Also during Stage Two, alliances could now be formed of as many players as desired, not just two.
Obiviously, this could definitely make for a long war, so anyone who doesn't want to stick around to the end can quit immediately after the end of stage one without being considered a coward or anything similar. I know that it would probably take a lot of MM, so it might be in a lot of people's best interests to quit early.
One other condition regarding an alliance surrender: if an alliance does surrender (or the last remaining alliances announce a draw) the members of that alliance/s can either continue on from there, or leave the game w/out being considered chicken. We all know that sometimes a whole alliance will surrender when one or more members would really have preferred to continue the fight. This would give them the opportunity to do so.
If only one alliance remains that has not surrendered, then Stage Three can begin. The winning alliance is declared the ALLIANCE DOMINANT. Each member of the alliance will be declared ALLIANCE VICTOR.
Stage Three: There Can Be Only One Galactic Ruler
Within five years of the beginning of Stage Three all players have the option of leaving the game or continuing on to vie for the victory. After five years, leaving the game would be considered a formal defeat for that player and their .x files will no longer be accepted. Once this stage begins, all alliances are formally dissolved. All remaining players set all others to enemy and the final, last war can start. This final stage is very simple: the war goes on until all players except one have been defeated (see beginning for definition).
Considering the huge amount of MM that would be involved in such a situation (not to mention the 512 fleet limit), it might be prudent for two or three players in the end to call a draw, though that can be left up to them. Alternatively, it might be better to just allow for a conditional victory, in which if one player possesses a score 150% greater than the other player, and also possesses 60% of the planets, that player is declared the DOMINANT CHALLENGER. Once a player reaches this status, he has the option of either continuing the fight to defeat all remaining powers and become the GALACTIC RULER, or ending the game there and retaining the DOMINANT CHALLENGER title. Note that if he does continue the game but later drops below 45% of the planets, or drops below a score 50% higher than second place, his title will be withdrawn and he will either have to retake the title, witness another player take the title who may then end the game or continue, or negotiate a draw.
Noting two interesting implications of this setup: first, a member of an alliance that surrendered in stage two could go on to be the final victor. For example, during Stage Two a player was part of an alliance that surrendered to another alliance. That player could continue to fight into Stage Three and beat out all the individual competitors and win.
Second, EVERY single race that started the game could theoretically survive to the third stage. Stage Two only requires an alliance surrender. No players absolutely need to be defeated to attain victory until Stage Three.
The last undefeated player will be declared GALACTIC RULER.
Some Additional Thoughts
Undoubtedly, all this would take a long time. Personally, I would guess that in a huge universe this triple-tiered process of elimination might last until 2700, or even longer under some circumstances. In fact, I almost have to wonder if it might be a better idea to just play in a large universe at say normal or dense. Especially if it did reach the point where only two players remain, each ruling about half the galaxy, they'd both probably be extremely close to the 512 fleet limit.
Personally, I think that such a setup would cover most of the bases. Some players wanted to see a game where everyone sets everyone else to "enemy." This could be the free-for-all in Stage Three, if such a player lasts that long.
Winners
Since there are three stages of the proposed game, it would probably go without saying that there can be three winners. How could these wins be counted?
For Stage One, the first person to meet three of the victory conditions can either choose to take the victory solely, or choose to declare an alliance victory with the single race he has set to "Friend," if there is such a race. For example, the winner could be "The Spaniards" or it could be "The Spaniard-Deather Eater alliance," or whatever the circumstances may be.
For Stage Two, the last undefeated alliance would take the victory. An alliance can only be declared the winner of Stage Two once no other alliances remain undefeated. An alliance must be formed of two more players. Therefore, once a single alliance has defeated all other alliances victory is declared. For instance, the "Hungrian-Destructor-Grendel alliance" or something similar might be announced as the victor for Stage Two.
For Stage Three, only one player can be declared winner. There can be no alliances remaining for Stage Three, as all players are required to set each other to enemy.
You Still Didn't Tell Us Who Wins
There are certainly going to be people who ask "so who won the game?" after it's all over. While explaining the details of the tripled-tiered victory system may prove enjoyable or at least interesting, the following chart is given for purposes of a concise all-around victory decloration:
Stage One
50 points for a single winner, plus 5 bonus points for each victory condition achieved beyond the three required conditions. If an alliance victory is declared, the second member of the alliance will receive 25 points, plus 1 point for every 5 bonus points the winner received, plus 1 point for each victory condition the alliance member achieved. 5 points will be awarded for each player that survives to Stage Two (excluding the winner(s)); 2.5 points for each of the victory conditions that a non-winning player met at any time before Stage Two. (For instance, if a player met one of the victory conditions way back in 2460 but was defeated before the end of Stage One, that player would be awarded 2.5 points.)
Stage Two
75 points to be divided equally by all members of the alliance, with a minimum of 12.5 points each; 10 points will also be given per player that survives to Stage Three (excluding the alliance members). The first player to meet all seven Stage One victory conditions receives 50 points; the second player to do so gets 25 points; and the third player gets 10.
Stage Three
100 points to be given to the single winner, plus one more point because there can be only one GALACTIC RULER, totaling to 101 points; 25 points are awarded for the last player defeated. If there was no player in Stage Two that achieved all seven Stage One victory conditions: the first player to achieve all Stage One conditions in Stage Three receives 25 points; the second player to do so receives 10.
The player with the most points at the end is declared the STARMASTER. If there is a tie, the in-game score will be used as a tie breaker.
The Galactic Era Dawns
The galaxy's races are at the brink of galactic change, for soon the fate of a galaxy will be decided. It is an epic age we are about to embark upon, and a new governing authority will break the status quo and come into power, enforcing order and bringing stability into a universe filled with turmoil. Enemies will be defeated, and a great time of rest and prosperity will be introduced to the tired universe, as all worlds prepare for the inevitability of extra-galactic invasion. The final victor will have to be wise in the things of diplomacy, cunning in the actions of warfare, possessing a mind knowledgeable of economics while understanding the manueverings of battle and the importance of influence of the mind, the affluence of strategy, and the power inherent in counterdesign, redesign, and adaptation. Such a task is no small undertaking, and the weight of responsibility is not light on the shoulders of those who rise to the challenge. But, all can rest assured, the rewards will be great, and the eternities will flow with bounty upon all who seek such a lofty achievement.
Summary
The game will be divided into three stages. Any player has the option to leave the game within five years after the beginning of any stage without being considered defeated. In Stage One, alliances will be limited to two players each--each player may only have one player set to "Friend." In addition, capital ships, BB's, DN's, and nubs can be built but must remain in orbit around one of the player's populated worlds, unless currently in transit to one of the player's other populated worlds. Such vessels cannot be sent to the planets of allied players. Victory for Stage One is dependent on meeting three of the seven criteria first selected. The first player to do so is declared CHAMPION OF STARS. If the CHAMPION OF STARS chooses to share the victory, his ally is declared CHAMPION IN CONCERT, and the alliance is declared the CHAMPIONSHIP ALLIANCE. In Stage Two alliances can have as many members as the present members allow to join, and BB's, nubs, DN's, and all other capital ships can go anywhere the owner wants to put them. Stage Two will end when only one alliance remains, and that alliance will be declared the ALLIANCE DOMINANT. Each surviving member of the alliance will be declared ALLIANCE VICTOR. Once there is only one alliance that remains, Stage Three begins. In Stage Three all players must set all other players to "Enemy." The stage will continue until there is only one player who is undefeated, and that player will be declared GALACTIC RULER. For conciseness there is also a point system that tallies throughout the game, and the player with the greater number of points at the end of the game is declared STARMASTER (it is possible for the GALACTIC RULER not to become the STARMASTER).
Once again, none of this is set in stone. These are just my ideas. All comments are welcome.
[Updated on: Thu, 26 January 2006 02:42]
Yeah, bread too.
Don't Let the Stars! Fade AwayReport message to a moderator
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| Re: New game for all |
Thu, 26 January 2006 13:59 |
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| Quote: |
Owns 15% of all planets (this could be changed later...)
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Owns 100 capital ships
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These 2 criteria seem too easy to meet. Typos?
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| Re: New game for all |
Thu, 26 January 2006 14:25 |
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Iconian, while you spent a lot of careful thought on his suggestion, it is just too complicated. I don't think we need a three stage victory condition. One stage is enough. I suspect that after stage one everyone would quit anyway.
What's wrong with capital ships? I don't think they should be excluded from the game. That changes the game and not in a good way. If only defensive forces can have capital nubian ships, then we are going to be bogged down in a slow defensive game. Let's leave the trench warfare to World War I simulations.
I can live with almost any choice on how to deal with alliances: (1) allow alliances without restrictions, (2) allow alliances with restrictions on time length and/or number of allies, or (3) no alliances allowed. My preference is to allow alliances in some form. Also, I think it is more difficult to restrict alliances without monitoring. [Another choice is to only allow races to be declared as friend if a public announcement is made of the alliance and the term of the alliance].
Your definitions of an alliance, defeat and how to treat inactive players are good.
The Universe is usually not fair.
That would be too easy.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New game for all |
Sat, 28 January 2006 16:32 |
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| Iconian |
| Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA | |
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Now that I have a chance to respond . . .
| Quote: |
Quote:
Owns 15% of all planets (this could be changed later...)
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Owns 100 capital ships
These 2 criteria seem too easy to meet. Typos?
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Kind of.
For the planet %, it could be figured out to make it more closely show the planets per player.
By that I mean, in a universe with 950 planets and 16 players, each player would get an average of about 59 planets--or about 6.2% of the universe's planets. Note that this is the average number--some players would be squished between others and might only get 30 or 40; others might spawn in a vacuum basically devoid of other players, and have 90 or 100 within easy reach. Anyway, in such a universe of 950 planets, 15% of them would be about 143. Even if a player started off in a "vacuum" devoid of other players, getting 143 planets would be fairly challenging. Some players, with luck or skill, or a combination of the two, could probably do it. The idea is that because there are multiple criteria, each player can choose his or her path to victory. So if you went ahead and were very agressive you might get 142 planets and meet the criteria, but it would be somewhat difficult. I think the planet % would need to be geared to the number of players. If we're only going to have 14 players the average would be 68 planets each, so a better victory condition for that number of players would probably be 18% of the planets, and so on. And even if you do get that condition, there are still two others you need to meet.
For capital ships . . . yes, I think you're right. If you started building them in quantity c. 2455, it would probably be easy to build 100 by 2480. I think 500 would be a better indicator.
| Quote: |
Iconian, while you spent a lot of careful thought on his suggestion, it is just too complicated. I don't think we need a three stage victory condition. One stage is enough. I suspect that after stage one everyone would quit anyway.
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Like I said, lots of people were looking to get lots of different things out of the game. Some people want alliances limited to 2; others want them limited to 3; others don't care about a limit. If in Stage One everyone is limited to a single friend, then the people who don't want to see large alliances can quit before Stage Two. Perhaps some, even most, people would quit after Stage One, but having the next stage would allow the people who want big alliances the chance to see them. Would it just be better to make two separate games, rather than dividing one game into three stages? Maybe. But when everyone has already created a thriving empire in the beginning, why tell them they have to stop playing and enter a different game to enter a large alliance? The Stage Two gives them the chance to be part of a big alliance without going into a different game.
| Quote: |
What's wrong with capital ships? I don't think they should be excluded from the game. That changes the game and not in a good way. If only defensive forces can have capital nubian ships, then we are going to be bogged down in a slow defensive game. Let's leave the trench warfare to World War I simulations.
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Nothing is wrong with capital ships. I love 'em. But keeping them from offensive use in the beginning would give everyone in the game a chance to reach the victory conditions, and that's what it sounded like some people wanted. Personally, yes, I'd like to be able to use the capital ships. But this was my attempt at a compromise, since it sounded like some people didn't want to get defeated early on before a chance to reach the victory conditions. If there are some individuals that want to limit the big wars until after someone meets victory conditions, what would be the trouble in that?
If everyone knew that at some point they'll be able to play the aspect of the game they want to (small alliances, big alliances, choose-your-path to victory, free for all fighting), wouldn't everyone have a more enjoyable experience? We'll all get a little of what we want. Maybe Stars! players need something to get the blood flowing again. Judging from what I've been reading on the forum and other places, the number of gamers is just dwindling continuously. A lot of people say Stars! is boring. To me, having some of these victory conditions would make it fun and quirky, especially with the titles and points and all.  Do you have any ideas on what might bring people back to Stars!, instead of just watching the numbers drop and drop?
We've heard what some of the people playing the game want to see. How about the rest?
Yeah, bread too.
Don't Let the Stars! Fade AwayReport message to a moderator
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| Re: New game for all |
Mon, 30 January 2006 11:41 |
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| rsitaly |
| Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 24
Registered: October 2005
Location: ITALY | |
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PLEASE BE INFORMED BEFORE TO SPEAK!
I have not left NO FRILLS III ... I have simply skipped 2 turns (during the weekend) because I'm changing ISP; the old one has already disabled my account and the new one has not enabled my new account yet.
So I don't have an Internet connection from home, and I have to send my turns from the office.
You must consider also that the real life is not only playing STARS and not always is possible to play due work or family commitments that are MORE IMPORTANT than STARS for me.
I HAVE NEVER dropped from a game only because my race was bad ... because playing add to my experience.
RSITALY is my user-id and my real name is ROBERTO ... what is the problem?
About this game ... I'll host and play in this game ... and we are exchanging messages between us using normal EMAIL ... and we will start in a few days.
Roberto
[Updated on: Mon, 30 January 2006 12:00] Report message to a moderator
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