Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Thu, 29 September 2005 10:41 |
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Quote: | - Is PP the only banned PRT?
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Hmmm, yeah... shouldn't IT also be banned?
they would have 3 major planets likely... giving 1.5 * resources of other races... which means they would have avg tech of roughly 23? instead of 21??
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Thu, 29 September 2005 12:43 |
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dennis | | | Messages: 84
Registered: November 2003 Location: Hsinchu, Taiwan | |
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vonKreedon wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 08:21 | A few questions:
- Does the 3-6% PGR apply to HE, effectively giving them 6-12% PGR?
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Yes...as HE moves up from 3 to 6..it gets very very expensive.....and as such an HE race will have to really think before choosing 6%.
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- Why the 250 year jump start? That seems like a long start, do you have something specific in mind for that number of years?
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Well the jump start is basically is to get things going. With thre planets and a slow growth rate you can't eally do too much - too quickly.
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- Any other game settings;i.e., Slow Tech, density, victory conditions?
- Is PP the only banned PRT?
- Are alliances allowed?
- The "Time Elasticity Device" is a one time device, never to be used again?
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Maybe IT should be banned to as DJ suggested as they get an extra planet...which could be play a mojor role in the game.
Universe Size: Small
Density: Packed
Galaxy Clumping (Does Not Really Matter)
Distant Player Positions
Alliances........Wel i was thinking of a last man standing victory but that will be left to discuss.
And yes the "Time Elasticity Device will be used only once..at the beginning....
Kotk wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 09:32 |
Note that most interesting parts of stars empire management are simply taken away from the players with such a jump start. Virtually unlimited minerals, full tech, fully developed planets, zero obsolete stuff. Why should they play it?
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First of all with 250 years..not every race gets 26 all across....NOTE THE SLOW GROWTH RATE.....
Minerals might be full and planets might be fully developed..yes..but it will just be two..maybe three planets. The game cannot be won easily just after the jump. There will have be be careful management of mins you have on those two-three planets. How good you do will depend on how you manage your pop, mins and fleets. You will need to move pop of those two-three planets onto new ones carefully to get the best growth rate. Its not as easy as one might think. At First, Even i thought that this would be a quick game but maybe not...especially with no Packets!!
-Edited to fix typos...most of em anyways...
[Updated on: Thu, 29 September 2005 13:41]
Hakuna MatataReport message to a moderator
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Sun, 02 October 2005 21:12 |
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I have a problem with Balance.
I do not see any way that anyone could beat an HE. The HE will be a full HP, 3i, all tech cheap, better growth rate than any other non-HE race. Given that he is 3i, it is guaranteed than he will colonize and build all his planets, a gamble for all other races. Among all the games I have played, I have never yet played HE, but I would in this game. I cannot even think of a way to make this balanced. IMO HE should be banned.
IT should also be banned because of the second starting planet.
No other players should be allowed to colonize a planet before the jump. This would allow all players to start on a level playing field with ONE planet (Bad luck trying to colonize a bad red planet could kill anyone's chances of winning if all players were allowed to colonize.)
With respect to VCs.... last man standing? Does this mean that all other players must be set to enemy? no tech trading? (I was recently in a game where there was no winner, because 4 of the 8 races became friends and would not break their alliances...)
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Mon, 03 October 2005 09:38 |
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I will correct my previous statement... that colonizing would be acceptable on the first turn. This will just enforce that anyone who wants to play will go 3i and drop their pop growth rate enough to get this. So then the planet is guaranteed to be green. You are likely to see mostly players with all three immunes.
Another question... Random events? Either random events needs to be turned off, or someone will need to check to see if any of the homeworlds have been hit by comets, asteroids, etc. A hit on a HW just before the end of the 250 years will trash a race.
Are you actually going to start this game? Do you think that you can get 16 players?
RainDancer
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Tue, 04 October 2005 04:43 |
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mazda | | Lieutenant | Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003 Location: Reading, UK | |
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If you want 6%, 3-i and 15/x/25 facts then you have to take bad LRT's, expensive tech and rather poor mines.
So do you drop to 5%, or do you drop to 2-i, 1x100 wide ?
I guess those are your 3 choices.
Normally the 5% is the best choice, but does the large jump change that ?
After the jump the 6% versions will grow better, so does the 5% version still get enough benefit from cheaper tech and factories to counteract that ?
[Updated on: Tue, 04 October 2005 06:00] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Tue, 04 October 2005 09:55 |
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iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1207
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
mazda wrote on Tue, 04 October 2005 10:43 | Normally the 5% is the best choice, but does the large jump change that ?
After the jump the 6% versions will grow better, so does the 5% version still get enough benefit from cheaper tech and factories to counteract that ?
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I did some testbeds with 3i HE with 5% PGR, 15/9/25/3 facs, 10+/3/25 mines, generalized research, and varied tech costs. Research was set to lowest field. From 4 planets I could get the following tech:
- all expensive: 4*18, 2*19
- all normal: 3*20, 3*21
- weap cheap rest normal: weap 24 rest 22.
Looking at results I had a feeling I could get very close to all tech maxxed. So I decresed PGR to 4% and started dumping points into cheap tech, but couldn't get to 26 until I picked all tech cheap. With that setting I got all tech to 26, but bio. And that race still had mine eff 21!
So it looks like the 4% HE would be the best choice, as even 3i 4% JoaT couldn't get better tech than 24.
Correction: I forget to give JoaT the GR LRT. With that it also got almost max tech: 4*26 and 2*25.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Tue, 04 October 2005 11:26] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Thu, 06 October 2005 13:27 |
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iztok wrote on Tue, 04 October 2005 09:55 |
So it looks like the 4% HE would be the best choice, as even 3i 4% JoaT couldn't get better tech than 24.
Correction: I forget to give JoaT the GR LRT. With that it also got almost max tech: 4*26 and 2*25.
BR, Iztok
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So how did you get this? My test JoaT did not get numbers that high. 1*26, 4*23, 1*21 (IIRC as I do not have my the game installed here at work...). Maybe lower Factory or Germ costs to speed up development?
RainDancer
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Thu, 06 October 2005 14:29 |
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iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1207
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
Raindancer wrote on Thu, 06 October 2005 19:27 | So how did you get this?
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JoaT
GR, NRSE, OBRM, NAS, RS
3-immune 4%
pop eff: 1/1000
fac's: 15/9/25/3
mines: 25/3/25
tech all cheap
17 points to MC
Turn 0: set default queue 1020 facs, 1020 mines. Merge Teamster and Santa maria, load half the pop from your HW on them, send them to colonize the closest planet with good germ (if you have info). Set research to lowest field, 0% contribution. Gen 250 turns.
HTH.
BR, Iztok
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Thu, 06 October 2005 14:41 |
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Kotk | | Commander | Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003 | |
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Actually ... if to take pop eff better it researches full.
JOAT4:
jack of trades,
GR, NRSE, OBRM, NAS, RS
4% 3I
700; 15/9/25 4g; 12/3/25
all cost 50% less
Game conditions: Tiny, sparse, ACC BBS, NRE
Sole player JOAT4
research: field of study energy, next field lowest, resources budgeted 0%
default production que: 1020 facs; 1020 mins; 1 defense
HW commands: default que.
Santa Maria commands: goto closest & colonize.
Teamster commands (for safety against 6 germ conc colony):
1) move some ly out of hw;
2) move to HW get all pop; move to colony drop all;
3) move to HW get all germ; move to colony dro all;
4) repeat 3 until out of waypoints;
Cotton Picker commands: go to someplace and remote mine there;
Rest of stuff: on case the colony is far use as Teamster or Cotton Picker boosters ... otherwise send to scout around.
Perfomance:
2500 tech 15 all over the board
2600 tech 23 all over the board
2644 tech 26 all over the board
So... its bit too good 73k resources are wasted. Better to adjust race more towards iztoks (less pop eff,better mines) or set HW to build chaff for ~73k resources to burn power.
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Thu, 06 October 2005 15:24 |
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Quote: | Note that most interesting parts of stars empire management are simply taken away from the players with such a jump start. Virtually unlimited minerals, full tech, fully developed planets, zero obsolete stuff. Why should they play it?
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In my case, I generally play smaller games, as my time is somewhat limited.
I cannot tell you how many times games have ended just when I was getting to techs that were really interesting. I think that being able to play the higher techs, in fairly small number even, would be fun.
And expansion will be difficult. There will be BIG enemy ships hunting down my colonizers. And if I pull all my pop from my HWs, then my economic base drops significantly. Do I expand or build more ships?
And 16 players in a small? That is not a whole lot of space when eveyone has W10 ships and pen scanners to find my planets and ships quickly.
I think it would be fun. I might die in the first 10 years, but it would be a different game, without an excessive investment in time (depending on how quick turns needed to be submitted...)
I will be looking to enter a game soon, and I might join a team game with my old partners (if the game starts, and I think it will...). If not I would be intersted in playing this game. If I cannot play I would still be willing to help with hosting.
RainDancer
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Re: Sloppy Joe - New Game Idea |
Fri, 07 October 2005 09:37 |
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So the next question, can races other than HE and JoaT get to max techs? (or mainly Weap 26 and Const 26, 23 on the others IIRC) Like WM? (Sorry, I cannot test from work....)
This again relates to balance.
If all races can get to Nubians, then a fairly balanced game can be created still. HE would still be the best probably, and JoaT next, but can a balanced game be created?
RainDancer
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