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dennis wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 15:56

Any ideas as to whether this game will work???

Note that most interesting parts of stars empire management are simply taken away from the players with such a jump start. Virtually unlimited minerals, full tech, fully developed planets, zero obsolete stuff. Why should they play it?

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vonKreedon wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 08:21

A few questions: - Does the 3-6% PGR apply to HE, effectively giving them 6-12% PGR?

Yes...as HE moves up from 3 to 6..it gets very very expensive.....and as such an HE race will have to really think before choosing 6%.

Quote:

- Why the 250 year jump start? That seems like a long start, do you have something specific in mind for that number of years?

Well the jump start is basically is to get things going. With thre planets and a slow growth rate you can't eally do too much - too quickly.

Quote:

- Any other game settings;i.e., Slow Tech, density, victory conditions? - Is PP the only banned PRT? - Are alliances allowed? - The "Time Elasticity Device" is a one time device, never to be used again?

Maybe IT should be banned to as DJ suggested as they get an extra planet...which could be play a mojor role in the game.

Universe Size: Small
Density: Packed
Galaxy Clumping (Does Not Really Matter)
Distant Player Positions

Alliances........Wel i was thinking of a last man standing victory but that will be left to discuss.

And yes the "Time Elasticity Device will be used only once..at the beginning....

Kotk wrote on Thu, 29 September 2005 09:32

Note that most interesting parts of stars empire management are simply taken away from the players with such a jump start. Virtually unlimited minerals, full tech, fully developed planets, zero obsolete stuff. Why should they play it?

First of all with 250 years..not every race gets 26 all across....NOTE THE SLOW GROWTH RATE.....

Minerals might be full and planets might be fully developed..yes..but it will just be two..maybe three planets. The game cannot be won easily just after the jump. There will have be be careful management of mins you have on those two-three planets. How good you do will depend on how you manage your pop, mins and fleets. You will need to move pop of those two-three planets onto new ones carefully to get the best growth rate. Its not as easy as one might think. At First, Even i thought that this would be a quick game but maybe not...especially with no Packets!!

-Edited to fix typos...most of em anyways...

[Updated on: Thu, 29 September 2005 13:41]

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They won't come close.

6% 3i HE still has ~600 points left - similar to how many typical HPs get from lowering their pop efficiency. A 6% HE can still get normal tech (cheap relative to most people's), good factories, and good mines. With expensive tech, the HE comes out even better in the other areas.

Add to that the fact that the growth compounds - it is exponential. After 10 years, our 6%(12%) HE has almost double the population of another PRT's 6% races - after 20 years the HE has over triple. After 50 years, the HE has 24 times the pop . 6% HE's are competitive with normal races with PGRs around 18-19%, let alone races whose PGR has been crippled.

If you want, we can duel. I play a 6% HE, and you play anything else with the PGR less than or equal to 6%.

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Kotk wrote on Fri, 30 September 2005 05:45

HE has 3 colony ships ... so HE will have 4 planets during jump.

Hmmm,
excluding dual planet start races...

All races except HE will be able to colonize 1 planet and will bring the max prod to 2X (2 normal planets)

HE races will be able to colonize 3 planets and will be able to bring the max prod to 4Y (4 HE planets)

However, comparing apples and oranges
HE planets will be roughly half as productive as normal planets...
therefore in the looong run... both race types should have roughly the same production output.

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[Updated on: Tue, 04 October 2005 06:00]

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[Updated on: Tue, 04 October 2005 11:26]

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I ran a test with a 4% HE.
ISB, GR, NRSE, OBRM, RS
700; 15/7/25 3g; 16/3/25
bio expensive, construction normal, rest cheap.
36 pts to facs.

Then i scummed for a situation where one colonized planet was extreme germ poor (conc 6).
Research i set to construction. Took 2650.
Result... 24/24/24/26/24/19.
Almost max tech, 10 years to AMP-s.
So seems i dumped too lot of points into pop eff.

[Updated on: Tue, 04 October 2005 10:46]

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Actually ... if to take pop eff better it researches full.
JOAT4:
jack of trades,
GR, NRSE, OBRM, NAS, RS
4% 3I
700; 15/9/25 4g; 12/3/25
all cost 50% less


Game conditions: Tiny, sparse, ACC BBS, NRE
Sole player JOAT4

research: field of study energy, next field lowest, resources budgeted 0%

default production que: 1020 facs; 1020 mins; 1 defense

HW commands: default que.

Santa Maria commands: goto closest & colonize.

Teamster commands (for safety against 6 germ conc colony):
1) move some ly out of hw;
2) move to HW get all pop; move to colony drop all;
3) move to HW get all germ; move to colony dro all;
4) repeat 3 until out of waypoints;

Cotton Picker commands: go to someplace and remote mine there;

Rest of stuff: on case the colony is far use as Teamster or Cotton Picker boosters ... otherwise send to scout around.

Perfomance:
2500 tech 15 all over the board
2600 tech 23 all over the board
2644 tech 26 all over the board
So... its bit too good 73k resources are wasted. Better to adjust race more towards iztoks (less pop eff,better mines) or set HW to build chaff for ~73k resources to burn power.

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Quote:

Note that most interesting parts of stars empire management are simply taken away from the players with such a jump start. Virtually unlimited minerals, full tech, fully developed planets, zero obsolete stuff. Why should they play it?

In my case, I generally play smaller games, as my time is somewhat limited.

I cannot tell you how many times games have ended just when I was getting to techs that were really interesting. I think that being able to play the higher techs, in fairly small number even, would be fun.

And expansion will be difficult. There will be BIG enemy ships hunting down my colonizers. And if I pull all my pop from my HWs, then my economic base drops significantly. Do I expand or build more ships?

And 16 players in a small? That is not a whole lot of space when eveyone has W10 ships and pen scanners to find my planets and ships quickly.

I think it would be fun. I might die in the first 10 years, but it would be a different game, without an excessive investment in time (depending on how quick turns needed to be submitted...)

I will be looking to enter a game soon, and I might join a team game with my old partners (if the game starts, and I think it will...). If not I would be intersted in playing this game. If I cannot play I would still be willing to help with hosting.

RainDancer

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Raindancer wrote on Fri, 07 October 2005 16:37

So the next question, can races other than HE and JoaT get to max techs?

PP and IT can but theyre banned as i understood. There are no tech trade so SS gets up to half of his research as spy bonus. Say weap and con cheap rest normal. It also has freighter available for leveling both worlds populations and germs up.
WM, IS and SD can surely get 1 field to 26 but not 2.
AR and CA are pointless PRT-s anyway for such a game.

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