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Certainly makes a lot more sense!
(Damn those pesky unemployed folk! )

Colour me interested....

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Out of interest, what are the issues regarding the whole download/e-mail issue?

Are there actually people who are unable to access their files from the download pages?

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Quote:(staz):

I'm sure that it wouldn't be _too_ difficult to modify Autohost so that it

I'm betting Ron wouldn't be too keen to make any modifications to the autohost scripts (if it ain't broke...) But I think if you ask nicely then Ron might share the autohost scripts with you so you could start up a server yourself to run a pilot game.

Quote:(Braindead):

I don't think I always submit my turns at the same time.

I think that the proposed idea is to have the server log when you download your turn (which doesn't have to be the same time every day) and then only permit you to upload for the next hour. So it doesn't matter if you are only able to log on at random intervals, so long as you are able to get your turn submitted within an hour of choosing to download the turn.

[Updated on: Sun, 22 May 2005 23:10]

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Storm wrote on Sun, 22 May 2005 19:16

Are there actually people who are unable to access their files from the download pages?

Let's see:

--While at work with the boss nearby.
--While abroad with balky browser, connection, machine, etc.
--While generally in a big hurry.

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Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 23 May 2005 05:05

I think that the proposed idea is to have the server log when you download your turn (which doesn't have to be the same time every day) and then only permit you to upload for the next hour. So it doesn't matter if you are only able to log on at random intervals, so long as you are able to get your turn submitted within an hour of choosing to download the turn.

You are assuming the machine you use to upload/download is the same one where you run Stars. That both machines are in the same place. That both machines can be accessed the same *day*...

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Staz wrote on Sun, 22 May 2005 15:45

It would be like a blitz game in some respects (you have to think fast) but played at regular game pace (3 - 7 turns per week).

You'll forgive me if I cannot see any sense in that proposition?

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I think he's just referring to the turnaround mechanics, not the turnover speed and hilarity associated with blitz games....

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Storm wrote on Mon, 23 May 2005 10:59

I think he's just referring to the turnaround mechanics, not the turnover speed and hilarity associated with blitz games....

So, all the problems and none of the benefits? eeks!

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m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 23 May 2005 09:49

Staz wrote on Sun, 22 May 2005 15:45 It would be like a blitz game in some respects (you have to think fast) but played at regular game pace (3 - 7 turns per week). You'll forgive me if I cannot see any sense in that proposition?

It helps players who don't have lots of time on their hands to keep up with players who do.

Blitz games require you to spend hours at a time on the game. Normal games can consume several hours, several times a week.

I'm not saying all games should have a limit, just that it would be nice if it was an option.

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Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 23 May 2005 04:05

I'm betting Ron wouldn't be too keen to make any modifications to the autohost scripts (if it ain't broke...) But I think if you ask nicely then Ron might share the autohost scripts with you so you could start up a server yourself to run a pilot game.

That's more or less what I was thinking, though I'm not sure I'd be able to find a server to host it myself.

For the moment I'm just kicking the idea about.

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m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 23 May 2005 11:09

So, all the problems and none of the benefits? eeks!

That's probably true for all the die-hard, takes-up-every-spare-waking-hour Stars! maniacs, but not everyone.

There _are_ people out there for whom Stars! is just one aspect of their life

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Staz wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 00:29

I'm not saying all games should have a limit, just that it would be nice if it was an option.

Ok, then. While I'm not sure how many people would like that new "flavour", it could be interesting to heard from those who actually try it.

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Staz wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 00:37

There _are_ people out there for whom Stars! is just one aspect of their life

Delusional people! They don't see the enemy fleets closing on their HomeWorld!

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Saying that others must be banned from doing the proper MM since you got no time for it? Sounds bit too egoistic? Have you seen how professionals play chess? They sometimes think hours about what one to move from these 16 pieces on board. Chess was played PBM before there was internet (and still is).

In average stars game you got hundreds of fleets that you may move all at once (as comparision to chess). So ... I got other (and i think lot better) suggestions.

Most obvious is: "Join only one game that is medium normal or smaller with 8 or more *reliable* and good players and you got time for living" Fun factor is bigger there and work burden is lot smaller. Usually you get your bottom whipped in bitter way since experts prefer these games.

One medium dense is about at the line where people start to whine and drop out because they cant keep up with the workload. Nothing to talk of people who play in 3 huge and large games at once. Such people drop out right and left for "real life issues".

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Kotk wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 14:31

Saying that others must be banned from doing the proper MM since you got no time for it? Sounds bit too egoistic? Have you seen how professionals play chess? They sometimes think hours about what one to move from these 16 pieces on board. Chess was played PBM before there was internet (and still is).

Remember that I'm not suggesting a time limit on -all- games, just that it should be an option for some games.


And don't most chess tournaments use clocks to control how much time players get for their moves ?

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As of now....it would not be wise to implement something like that thru autohost.......

Lets say i download my turn to set orders and the whole hallabalu...so its 8:00a.m. now.....i make the first colonize orders......then suddenly i get a call.....telling me that i have an urgent meeting with my boss or have to drop off kids to school because they are late and can't walk........so i stop doing my turn....do whatever i have to do that suddenly came up........come back to do my turn...about 2 hours later and so it is 10:00 a.m. now.......i do my turn and try submitting.....AH says...

"OOPS...you are too late...you have spent way too much time on your turn.......try submitting next year dude....You will not be allowed to submit this year.......sorry!!!"

I begin swearing now and getting really vexed......"damn...#$%^ AutoHost....cursed host......blah blah blah......"

Nah...we cannot have that happen now can we?????????
Things happen in life.......so i do not know if something as strict as that can be implemented thru AH.....

Now if you want that option....you will need a version of stars that times how much time one spend on his/her turn......and one that stops timing if idle for more than five mins...... if you know what i mean....

Maybe you can tell Hilton......

just some thoughts.....

regards

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As long as everybody that *chose* to join the game understood the risks it would be fine. Sure you might miss a gen now and again, or be forced to submit an unfinished turn but then so would everybody else... If you had to rush off and do something you'd just have to upload what you'd done so far.

Please remember this isn't being forced on anybody - just don't join the game...

I'd be very happy to join a game like this because I usually spend much too long on my turns. This might teach me to ease off a little on the MM

I don't think modifying the exe to incorporate this is a feasible alternative, as it would be much too easy to abuse - put simply you could download the m file and load it on one computer, study it for an hour, then load it up on another computer and actually play your turn... If Stars! was a web game it would work, but it's not...

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Dogthinkers wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 18:02

As long as everybody that *chose* to join the game understood the risks it would be fine. Sure you might miss a gen now and again, or be forced to submit an unfinished turn but then so would everybody else... If you had to rush off and do something you'd just have to upload what you'd done so far.

Yes I understand that for such a type of game, if one is playing in it..one would be very aware of the time cap..........and so know the risks invovled......

You also say that if you had to rush off and come back late...you just have to upload what you have finished.........but from what i understand or "misunderstand"......Staz meant that once the time has passed...the person would not be able to upload any at all!!

Quote:

Please remember this isn't being forced on anybody - just don't join the game...

I agree.....for some games...it might be accceptable......but only if this idea is implementable.... but it is not....

Quote:

I'd be very happy to join a game like this because I usually spend much too long on my turns. This might teach me to ease off a little on the MM

People actually take pride in the fact that they are good at mm......so if you do it..i think its great...and I don't advise from going away from it...

Quote:

I don't think modifying the exe to incorporate this is a feasible alternative, as it would be much too easy to abuse - put simply you could download the m file and load it on one computer, study it for an hour, then load it up on another computer and actually play your turn... If Stars! was a web game it would work, but it's not...

I did not mean for modification of the exe rather for the option to be available in a new stars where a time limit can be set..because that would be the only logical and practical manner to setup rules of this sort.........

Basically from what i understand Staz wants....Stars to be a game where there is a limit on how much time a player spends on one turn. Now his first suggestion was to modify AutoHost.....to make timestamps of when turns were downloaded...and allow an upload of that turn within 'x' hours after download time. If 'x' hours passed after first download attempt.......Staz wanted the uploads to be blocked.....(Am i understanding you correct Staz??)
The problem with this is > Life >>> things happen >>as i said earlier...and things come up suddenly...and you just have to put aside your turn at times.........So implementing it thru Autohost is not practical.......because AutoHost would calculate time spent on turn by checking the time difference between the download time and the time the player will try to upload his/her turn....This may be correct in some instances but in most cases i do not think it would be accurate......especially since for every trip to the kitchen to make a cup of coffee you lose out on time....

So what i suggested was maybe it "could" be an option, if really needed........that in a newer version of stars......a time cap set for time spent on each turn.......this time would be calculated by the client program.....and stored in the file each time you clicked on save........so the time spent on turn would actually be the sum of the total time you spend on the turn each time you open the turn file and close it.......

regards

[Updated on: Wed, 25 May 2005 14:45]

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Staz wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 22:26

And don't most chess tournaments use clocks to control how much time players get for their moves ?

That was exactly my point. With autohost you get time limit per turn. Havent you seen that clock on Autohost page? Have you seen "looking" clock on chess table? The idea of multiple clocks per turn is anyway quite impossible to implement with autohost since someone there will sure download everybody elses turns as soon he only can.

Some of the MM is boring ... i agree. Thats why my suggestion remains as it was that it is lot more interesting and satifying to play one game well in small instead of playing 3 larges lousily.

Otherwise got to play these RTS games, stars blitzes now and then or ... to wait for Freestars and then a while once someone write Freestars client that does boring MM for player.

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