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Reverse engineering and cloning

Sat, 19 March 2005 07:36

Kotk

Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003

PricklyPear wrote on Sat, 19 March 2005 05:25

there's actually a hell of a lot of floating point stuff in there. i hate reversing FP code Evil or Very Mad

No one actually forces you to reverse engineer commercial software. Worse than that ... I have noted that it is illegal on most parts of our planet. Twisted Evil

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Re: some questions about coding

Sun, 20 March 2005 06:32

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

Hi,

Kotk wrote on Sat, 19 March 2005 13:36

No one actually forces you to reverse engineer commercial software. Worse than that ... I have noted that it is illegal on most parts of our planet. Twisted Evil

I'd like some clarification on that. Do you mean making commercial (or whatever) profit from reverse-engineered code, or just reading the code and getting ideas from it has been made illegal too? Shocked

Aside from the "unsupported/abandonware" status (or not) of the original code in question... Confused

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: some questions about coding

Sun, 20 March 2005 07:06

Kotk

Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003

m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 20 March 2005 13:32

Do you mean making commercial (or whatever) profit from reverse-engineered code, or just reading the code and getting ideas from it has been made illegal too? Shocked

Yes, i have had impression that reverse engineering for whatever purpose ... is often forbidden. However ... i am not lawyer. Maybe reverse engineering is forbidden by law. Maybe it is forbidden only if explicitly said in licence agreement. Maybe i am wrong and reverse engineering is human right. Smile

m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 20 March 2005 13:32

Aside from the "unsupported/abandonware" status (or not) of the original code in question... Confused

Actually if something is commercially sold, it is not abandonware. Despite companies do not have any human rights, one should beware. They have far lot more rights than cockroaches. Best advice is to avoid finding it out hard way. Wink

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Re: some questions about coding

Thu, 07 April 2005 17:43

StarsBob

Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: June 2004

Quote:

Yes, i have had impression that reverse engineering for whatever purpose ... is often forbidden. However ... i am not lawyer. Maybe reverse engineering is forbidden by law.

If reverse engineering was illegal, then we wouldn't have PC clones, etc.

(although I believe that technically, the person writting the code should not be the same person who determines the actions of the program).

[Updated on: Thu, 07 April 2005 17:43]

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Re: some questions about coding

Sat, 09 April 2005 09:24

Kotk

Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003

StarsBob wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 00:43

If reverse engineering was illegal, then we wouldn't have PC clones, etc.

PC clones? Laughing

All Hi-tec stuff is made basically at one place anyway. Actually in some East-Asian factories. Chinese are just sometimes makeing some production to themself and sell it as "clones" at yellow markets. Thats all about PC clones. Very Happy

I was about software. Difference between hardware and software is that once software is ready the production cost of a "copy" is very low. So making "clones" is called "piracy" there. Wink

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Re: some questions about coding

Sat, 09 April 2005 16:36

Storm

Ensign

Messages: 359
Registered: February 2005
Location: Wanker's Corner

Kotk wrote on Sat, 09 April 2005 14:24

Chinese are just sometimes makeing some production to themself and sell it as "clones" at yellow markets.

What's a yellow market?

** Storm **

"Yeah... but... Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like f***ing Shaft!"

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Re: some questions about coding

Sat, 09 April 2005 17:11

Kotk

Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003

Storm wrote on Sat, 09 April 2005 23:36

What's a yellow market?

Dunno.

It just sounded right. I was thinking of a market where people sell and buy "clones" of "real" stuff. Very Happy

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Re: some questions about coding

Tue, 12 April 2005 19:16

StarsBob

Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: June 2004

Kotk wrote on Sat, 09 April 2005 09:24

StarsBob wrote on Fri, 08 April 2005 00:43

If reverse engineering was illegal, then we wouldn't have PC clones, etc.

PC clones? Laughing

I was about software. Difference between hardware and software is that once software is ready the production cost of a "copy" is very low. So making "clones" is called "piracy" there. Wink

By "PC clones" I mean PCs that aren't made by IBM. If Compaq hadn't been able to reverse engineer IBM's original bios, we wouldn't have had the first 'clones.' Same thing with AMD reverse engineering the x86 instruction set.

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Re: some questions about coding

Tue, 12 April 2005 19:26

multilis

Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Quick and Dirty DOS was originally copied from Digital Research CP/M OS, then bought by Microsoft and sold to IBM as DOS 1.0...

Good thing reverse engineering is ok because otherwise we might not have Microsoft today. Shocked

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Re: some questions about coding

Wed, 13 April 2005 06:45

Kotk

Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003

StarsBob wrote on Wed, 13 April 2005 02:16

Same thing with AMD reverse engineering the x86 instruction set.

Intel has always noisily published his x86 instruction sets and extensions to it. 386 instructions were published before the processor was sold. How can programmers program if instruction set is not published? Rolling Eyes

As for 64-bit extension its made (and first published) by AMD.

NOTE: I repeat for case that i am not like saying that one may not reverse engineer physical objects. It is probably my fault since English is only 4th language i learned to speak. Sure they may. Worse than that. Original maker must have patents to prevent others copying of his ideas there. So if you got no patent in China but factory is there then they can make "clones" from line located next to "originals" line. It is software i was talking about.

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Re: some questions about coding

Wed, 13 April 2005 07:32

Kotk

Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003

multilis wrote on Wed, 13 April 2005 02:26

Good thing reverse engineering is ok because otherwise we might not have Microsoft today. Shocked

Your joking?

Some guy named Tim Paterson from Seattle Computer Systems had bought a CP/M manual and used it as the basis to write his operating system in six weeks. Call it reverse engineering?
Product ... that QDOS was made different enough from CP/M to be considered legal. I have used CP/M when there were only 8 bit computers it was widespread.

As for MS it wanted rights for best suitable OS for intel new processors and so Bills rich father gave his geeky son money and he bought all rights for QDOS. Rich guys like Gateses have lawyes they ask their such steps from. So if QDOS had been illegal then Bill had bought something else.

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