Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » The ABCs of Diplomacy
| The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Tue, 17 December 2002 11:34  |
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 johng316 |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 177
Registered: November 2002
Location: Indiana, USA | |
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Many of you here are old Stars! veterans, so I'm sure you will chime in with your own useful insights on the subject of Diplomacy in Stars!
Personally, I believe diplomacy is the most important aspect of the game. A poor race design can maneuver a winning position through diplomacy, while the best race design is often doomed.
Early Leader Syndrome The early leader (especially in a Public Scores game) will often be targeted for paring by the remaining races. If you are in a game and you are NOT the early leader, try building a coalition of races to oppose the early leader and bring the game back into balance. If you have designed your race to take an early lead, you should expect this and press your advantage to the full, but if you irritate every single neighbor, you will have too many fights on your hands. When you are the leader, you should attempt to passify as many neighbors as possible through very generous terms, picking your fights carefully. Offer tech, a share in conquered territory, minerals, ships, goodies, whatever it takes to keep your true enemies limited.
Care and feeding of allies Remember that friends will remain friends as long as it is in their best interest to do so. Most people don't realize this, have a "me first" attitude and only very temporary alliances. Choose your allies carefully, and if you find a high-quality ally, be generous with him. Try to anticipate his needs for territory, intelligence, ships, defense, minerals, and offer to dump a load of G on his nearby colony. Tell him when you've found good planets for him, and offer to help him capture them (as long as they reside in a potential enemy's camp). Tie his success to yours whenever possible (give him a reason to attack your enemy). Sacrifice your success for his when practical. All of these create a sense of indebtedness, and, if done right, will cement a longer-term, trusting relationship. If you fail to anticipate the needs of your ally, someone else will, and you'll find yourself without an ally (especially if you are a front-runner who appears dangerous). That leads me to...
The Muck-Raking Campaign This is a useful tool for creating a negative sentiment about one or more races. Whenever possible, report negative or fear-inspiring information about alliances you've discovered, growth rates, ship designs, dangerous tech levels or devices, treacherous actions against other players.
It's sometimes fun to include role-played, fictional accounts of interactions with other races (accuse them of eating children of conquered races, sexual perversion, inbreeding, bad breath, etc). Include terms like "vile" and "evil" whenever you are describing certain races in the game you wish to isolate.
Muck-raking is most effective if you can persuade others to repeat the information, thus lending more credibility to your suggestions. Do your best to position yourself as "righteous" and the potential diplomatic victim as "evil and deserving destruction." Most of us like nothing better than to embark on a just and true moral crusade. 
Beware Silence can sometimes be deadly in Stars! If you are not managing the perception that others have of your race, someone else will be managing it for you (behind your back). Even if you have the best race design, a coalition of enemies can (and often do) take out the leaders. Try to understand your diplomatic strategy from the beginning. If you plan to be an early leader, understand the risks. If you have a slow-growing race and lead later, consider muck-raking the leader and use your weakness in the early game to form some trusting alliances for "mutual benefit," and take care of those alliances.
Well, 'nuff said for today. There's lots more on this topic, and I hope others chime in with their techniques and strategy.
John G
...
All Your Base Are Belong To Us.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Tue, 17 December 2002 14:36  |
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Furthering the discussion.........
Be nice to your allies - you never know when you'll need them.
IT, CA and AR make good allies.
IT because of their gate technology. Interbreeding with IT is highly recommended.
CA because if they're good, you don't want to make an enemy of them. They also will have biotech which I doubt anyone else researches and they have orbital terraformers - sweet.
AR because they need allies. They will be your friend very easily. They can give you loads of minerals too which is nice. They often have a tech advantage to. Good basis to start an alliance with an AR is "if you're nice to me and give me some stuff I wont kill you" - but you need to change that attitude once they get mineral fountains and you need to be nicer to them and they are to you.
SS and JOAT come in handy too because they gather info for you.
Strongest alliance I have partaken in was with an IT and AR race. I was the IT and gave them access to gate those hefty miners for a few kt of minerals. Generally he put cargo pods on the miners and filled them, dumping the minerals before gating. A sweet deal indeed.
ok now for bullet points...
1. make yourself known from the start and maintain strong communication with friendlies.
2. Find out hab ranges of your ally - interbreed where possible - it makes for stronger alliances.
3. Chuck mud at anyone who gives you crap. They something nasty about you then make sure you can say something nasty back - the odd screenshot or two can REALLY fuel a fire.
4. Peace is good. A race with no enemies has no need to build warships and bombers.
5. If you really must go to war with someone then make sure that the galaxy knows it's his fault and he's a bad bad man and everyone whould help you. That way he can't make everyone go to war with you.
6. Relate an enemies actions to your friends fears. i.e. if you're friendly with an AR mention that WM race nearby thats being aggressive and how much nicer things would be if they could be brought under control.
7. Lie. Ok if someone is ACTUALLY nasty then don't bother with this one. If they aren't then go for this one.
8. Always have a backup. If your alliance faulters then pray to which ever deity you pray to that you didn't alienate everyone in the game.
9. trade trade trade trade and trade. Steal if you can, but don't get caught.
10. When making first contact with someone you have generally 3 options of approach - the aggressor, the equal or the humble. The aggressor: involves a show of strength - this requires you either showing what you can do or lying that you can - bombers, mass packets, etc... are useful for this. The equal: sharing and making sure that everyone gets what they want. A good approach that weighs up loss vs gain. If the new contact is weak and you start aggressive you'll get more, if they are weak and you act humble you could lose out. The equal balances it out so sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. The humble: best way to get friendly, worst way to get what you want. WM should always go aggressive, AR always humble.
11. Never ever ever ever ever put a post on the Autohost forum entitled "SS ultimate strategy?"
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Tue, 17 December 2002 17:47 |
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interbreed, intersettle - if you think about it theres not THAT much difference. Just one set of neighbours is a little more friendly.
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Sat, 25 January 2003 18:47 |
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| zoid |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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| Coyote wrote on Tue, 21 January 2003 21:04 in the "Silliest Race Names" thread, in The Bar |
I ran a slow AR called the Fightin' Orcs in hopes that I could intimidate my way to safety. When four IT's and a WM decided to gang up on me in the 20's I realized that it wasn't such a great idea.
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Bluffing and intimidation has never worked for me. Invariably, whether your opponent initially believes everything you say or not, he will immediately test your resolve, initially putting only one toe over the line. If no show of force is made then, he is emboldened and puts his big muddy boot down in a place sure to infuriate you and draw a response. If at that point you are unable to smack him down, he'll ignore everything you said at best, and probably worse.
On the other hand, if he steps his toe over the line and you stomp it real good, he can apologize and give any number of excuses/logic to explain the behavior away, so he has nothing to lose by testing you.
What I'd like to know is - Has bluffing EVER worked for anyone?
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math?  Ummm, sure!  I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Sat, 25 January 2003 19:45 |
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double bluffs have worked for me.
By that I mean when (in a game I'm currently playing) *someone* stuck a toe in he hit a small planet that was using outdated defensive ships - very outdated. Since public player scores were off and I was IT he had no idea how many of the newer ships had just gated into the area.
His war fleet never reach the planet. It would have taken 2 turns for his fleet to reach my world - by the end of turn 1 he would have come out of his minefields and my torpedo ships could intercept. Before his ships reached my planet they were intercepted and defeated - heavy losses on both sides. I lost all but a handful of ships - his bombers remained, but I was IT and still producing ships. Don't ask me how it turned out because it's still going on - looks good though.
Btw - we were at peace but I was made privy to information that he'd ammassed a fleet at the planet in question. Sometimes you have to love having good relations with an *honest* SS.
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Sun, 26 January 2003 06:27 |
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well in this one game I met this HE race while I was AR - I convinced him I had cruisers with jihads when I quite clearly didn't. He then backed down.
Now I actually do have cruisers with jihads we're getting along quite well.
Any of this sound familiar? lol
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Sun, 26 January 2003 13:37 |
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| zoid |
| Ensign |
Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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Nope. Good comeback, though.
Actually, that little mention of cruisers had nothing to do with my change of heart. My sudden change of heart really had nothing to do with any factor within the game.
I will admit I believed at that time you just might have the cruiser technology. There was no mention of Jihads, and that made it believable. I expected cruisers with low tech weapons like Yakimora Phasers in very small number, IF you decided to actually produce some. Your silence afterward was more worrisome then that. You were right when you said "Silence is golden". 
What changed my mind about my politics had everything to do with my latecomer discovery of 25k by 2450 races (between turns), and the baseless "certainty" that everyone was playing one but me and I was going to get run over by standing in the way. But I don't regret backing down, anyways. It was probably a shift in the right direction, regardless of the reason.
[Updated on: Sun, 26 January 2003 13:42]
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Ummm, sure! I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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 Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Mon, 27 January 2003 11:19 |
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| Apelord |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 99
Registered: November 2002 | |
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I did something similar once in a game as an AR. I had enslaved a newbie CA player next to me and he was madly terraforming my worlds and I was putting up empty Ultra's for breeders when an alliance of three players showed up on my doorstep (having eaten their way through the player to my North) with almost 150 cruisers that had to be Jihad's by weight. They rattled their Saber and said "get off these worlds " (I had poached a few of my Northern neighbors worlds in the final years). I turned around and said "Why I'm just a poor AR...". Stretched that for a few years, then when they said they were going to attack next year, I said "Fine I quit, three on one sucks, I can't match your fleets (I had Dooms and Deathstars already and could've fought them off, BUT at a high cost and couldn't counterattack) you win". Because they were itching to use all their ships that sent discussions back through another round. All the while I as madly researching con tech. Then when I was ready, I said fine let's fight in three years, I'll try and make a game out of it but don't bet on it. Three years later I stuffed a big group of tech 22 beamer nubs through a WH leading to their space and they got the snot kicked out of them  .
Had they chosen to keep coming and ignore diplomacy, they could have walked right through my fron lines and with a little skill taken out half my planets, but through diplomacy I was able to buy myself almost 10 years to crank up my war machine. It's hard to know when facing an enemy whether you have a solid advantage or not sometimes and a skillful diplomatic player can often turn things to their advantage...
"The object of war is not to die
for your country but to make
the other bastard die for his" -George PattonReport message to a moderator
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Mon, 27 January 2003 13:15 |
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| BlueTurbit |
 | Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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So were telling big fish stories now, eh? It's not that I am calling you a liar, I am just doubting your word. Even if this story is true, I wouldn't tell it. 
| Quote: |
with almost 150 cruisers that had to be Jihad's by weight
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Exactly how did you determine Jihads by weight? Don't all missiles weigh the same amount? 
| Quote: |
Three years later I stuffed a big group of tech 22 beamer nubs through a WH
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You mean to say, this 3-way alliance only threatened with Jihad CC's (Tech 9 CC's and W12 Jihad) while about 10 years later you were able to pump out Nubians with MD,s (C26 and W22)? Er, that's about a 27 level difference in tech in only two fields within about a ten year time span. What game did you say that was? 
"Well, pilgrim, you talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?"
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Mon, 27 January 2003 16:15 |
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To just chuck in my ore a little here....
AR's are probably the best race in the game at ramping up tech.
Show me any other race that can crank out BB's with dooms by 2445.
Couple that with the fact that almost 100% of resources could be put into research due to the terraforming CA partner.......
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Mon, 27 January 2003 17:00 |
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| johng316 |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 177
Registered: November 2002
Location: Indiana, USA | |
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I use bluffs successfully from time to time. The most successful bluffs for me have been in PUBLIC SCORE environments when I can use PS to back up any claims I might have about strength. I don't want to give away too many sneaky secrets, tho, so I'll tell you about the first time I was successfully bluffed by another player:
This was in one of my very first games with humans. It was about 5 years ago, and I was playing a JoaT race and was in the lead. I had few allies, and the IT to the South was really ticking me off (he was #2). We had had a number of significant border skermishes. Anyway, he pulled this superb bluff that I NEVER forgot. He built up a bunch of minefields and started producing BBs that were HEAVY. It was not a PS game, so I couldn't verify that they were Jihad ships, but they certainly weighed in at the right ballpark. He would float these out by fleets in the minefield just long enough for me to get a good look at them, and then he'd pull them back into the minefield. Every time I tried to send in a scout to get the design, he would dodge and pick me off.
Seeing his buildup and hearing his verbal threats (bluffs), I went into full-scale production of Jihad BBs and Heavy Blaster beamer BBs. In actual fact, he was producing "junk" BBs loaded with cheap, heavy armor trying to goad me into all-out production, and it worked. While I was hammering out the Jihad BB's, he put almost his entire (smaller) economy into weapons tech and soon began producing Weapons 20 beamers and missile ships. I got my first taste of Doomsday range advantage, and I was soon overwhelmed by his vastly superior fleet. He handed me my backside on a platter, and I have never forgotten how he did it.
John G
All Your Base Are Belong To Us.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Wed, 12 February 2003 18:04 |
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| Crusader |
 | Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land | |
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A. Refrain from sending message broadcasts in the first few turns of a game. Wait until you actually discover a race through scans and then begin negotiations. My opinion; yours may vary.
B. Bluffing, as in Kirk inventing Fizzbin, Kirk fibbing about the Corbomite, etc, just simply does not work real well in Stars! Bluffing as in feinting an attack against one of your enemy's planets, while a heavily cloaked fleet actually attacks a prime planet once reserves are committed against the feint - now THAT works! (And no, I was not playing SS at the time.) Committing the last of your mineral and fleet reserves into a retaliatory strike against an invading neighbor to lead them to believe that you are NOT running short of minerals in the end game can sometimes work and cause the invader to concede the game. I also gave the impression of overwhelming strength throughout the game by building my BBs light enough to gate from border to border when needed. It's all about finding that ideal weight to repair all damage in one year.
C. Be cordial, yet firm and commanding in all your dealings with others. Try to not be arrogant, or pushy, or paranoid. On the other hand, try not to be a whimpering pushover. (Unless, of course, you are in a role-playing game and that is the role you have chosen.) 
D. Remember that allies weaken you, so delay that alliance as long as is feasible.  That's right, I didn't stutter. Do not rush into alliances. You may regret it later.
E. Limited treaties, on the other hand, are often quite useful through the early and middle years. Do not hesitate to sign limited treaties that might help give you an edge in the game. Always remember, however, that you may be giving the other guy an even bigger edge in the game.
F. Always remember that everyone is out to get you. 
G. Don't be overly paranoid.
H. Always remember that all rules must be broken from time to time, depending on the circumstances. Be flexible.
I. Be as sure as you can be of the kind of game you are getting into, and this is where hosts can go that extra bit to give out as much info about the game they wish to host ahead of time. If you are someone who believes that backstabbing an ally during a game is the ultimate in bad form and poor sportsmanship or whatever it is that you have against it, then don't get into a game where backstabbing is allowed. It will only raise your blood pressure and annoy your fellow players.
It is my own opinionthat what is often termed "backstabbing" by Stars! players is a rather realistic view of changing diplomatic realities in a highly-charged political environment. Did the US "backstab" Russia when it helped form NATO after being allied with Russia during WWII?
Your opinion may vary. 
I'm forgetting something, but it is time to go home. Enjoy
Your humble servant,
The Crusader
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 Re: The ABCs of Diplomacy |
Sun, 16 February 2003 02:24 |
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| Crusader |
| Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land | |
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Hey Freakyboy,
Thanks. Kind words always make me feel good. 
As concerns sportsmanship, I'm all for it, especially toward the end of the game when the skies are aflame with the beams and bombs of my enemy's invasion fleet. But in those first 10 to 20 years when I can't even see sign of any life in the universe, I tend to stay more silent than most. I save it until after I know who my neighbors are, and who their neighbors are. Then I can start some very interesting conversations, some of which may actually contain a grain or two of truth.
Role-playing is one of my favorite things about this game. I'm all for it, when I have time. One thing I have noticed, however, is that not everyone is really clear as to when they are IC (In Character) and when they are OoC (Out of Character). We should all strive harder to make that distinction at all times (notice that I include myself). There are times when being in character can be a major distraction, like when you really are allied with another player (or two), and major cooperation is called for within a campaign. Ain't nothing like clear speech to help a coordinated attack or defense along to success.
As concerns my statement about rules being broken, I was referring to my own rules instead of the rules as laid down by the host. I tend to believe that if the host has placed certain rules upon a game, as a player I have agreed to follow those rules. That is what I expect of players who join my games, and I try to reciprocate. I do have ethics. After all, I'm the Crusader. Not that I thought you were accusing me, or advocating anything in particular. I just thought I would clear the air on that one. 
Remaining your humble servant,
The Crusader 
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Though "interbreeding" might produce some interesting results.