Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » No LRT's game!!!
No LRT's game!!! |
Wed, 15 January 2003 18:00 |
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As mentioned by Micha I'll accept the idea and host the game.
Basic rules - no race can have ANY LRT's at all. You get what you're given!
So basically anyone who's interested then e-mail beejay***@***thefreakshow.org.uk without the stars in there (stars? gettit?) with your interest and I'll put your name down.
If someone on the forum would be nice enough to volunteer to check the races that would be wonderful, thank you.
Chaff allowed, fleet split allowed only by ship type (i.e. can split armed ships, freighters, miners, mine layers, scouts and bombers from each other but you CANNOT split armed ships up to dodge).
Distant start is for definate as is Accel BBS.
Space size is dependant upon interest but density will be normal. Galaxy no bigger than normal with 10 players.
1 alliance, 2 peaceful - all other races must be enemies. This will keep it interesting.
Winner is last race/alliance alive or until everyone has quit crying like little girls (the term "crying like a little girl" is not intended to insult or offend any girls of a smaller than average size and I apologise for anyone offended) that it's not fair.
Newbies welcome - but they may become fodder, so make sure this isn't your FIRST game.
I think thats about everything?
Oh yeah - it'll be hosted on Autohost because we love Ron so much - Ron the man who is also invited to play if he so wishes
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Wed, 15 January 2003 18:27 |
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Micha | | | Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002 Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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Quote: | Chaff allowed, fleet split allowed only by ship type (i.e. can split armed ships, freighters, miners, mine layers, scouts and bombers from each other but you CANNOT split armed ships up to dodge).
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Not sure I understand this, do you mean that if you have a mixed fleet you can split off each type of ship in a different fleet but all the armed ships have to stay together?
Quote: | Space size is dependant upon interest but density will be normal. Galaxy no bigger than normal with 10 players.
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No bigger than ?
Quote: | 1 alliance, 2 peaceful - all other races must be enemies. This will keep it interesting.
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Well, as you saw in my previous post I like relations to be more limited, like this you get stuck with a whole bunch of friends and nobody to fight against ... Games with ALL other players set to enemy are the best!!
One ally is nice though and more than enough, you can't get tech from two races in the same turn, so I consider 2 the max. Just my humble opinion ...
Quote: | Newbies welcome - but they may become fodder, so make sure this isn't your FIRST game.
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I think newbies will definitely become fodder, this setup requires a little more skill than beginners usually have ...
Quote: | Oh yeah - it'll be hosted on Autohost because we love Ron so much - Ron the man who is also invited to play if he so wishes
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I concur! Ron is the best!
kind regards,
mch
[Updated on: Wed, 15 January 2003 18:28] Report message to a moderator
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Wed, 15 January 2003 18:36 |
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Yes ship types have to remain together. This keeps with a general theming of how a fleet would work. The same purpose ships would remain together and in a situation where it became "run away!" time the ships would split in an organised fashion - i.e. squads together. Correct me if I'm wrong but this would allow fleet dodge i.e. protection of freighters by splitting unarmed vessels from the armed ones, for example but it would stop abuse of fleet dodge bug.
Normal - read medium, medium galaxy should be biggest, keeps everyone close and fighting.
I like some form of relations. I think with 10 players in the game at best you could have 2 friends and 1 ally and this would still leave you with 6 enemies! In other words you will always have twice as many enemies as friends... at best.
Newbies can shock you. Chances are they will become fodder but one thing I have found is that the line between newbie and intermediate if very vague and some intermediates may get class as newbs and vice versa - in others anyone who's played a few games and *thinks* they can be a contender is welcome - but no first timers.
And we all love Ron.
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Wed, 15 January 2003 18:58 |
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Micha | | | Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002 Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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Splitting, if the enemy also splitted his fleet ALL your fleets will get targetted. There is a lot of debat about who gets the most interceptors, but EVERY fleet will get intercepted. If the fleeing fleets would be mixed (in contrary with your rule) it's all guessing for the pursuer how many armed ships he will use per intercepting fleet, but also the one who is running will have to try to guess ...
I'm not sure if the fleet dodge is still really that big of a bug ...
Hm, for instance, would this mean that I can _not_ split up a set of 5 minesweeping DDs which I _know_ will be intercepted the next turn? Who's to tell that I wasn't going to split them up anyway?
Player relations, with that many friends you can be surrounded by them, meaning you have to fight far away from your own worlds, not very comfortable ... I recently was in that situation, ships had to travel a looong way to get to the front.
Also, 10 players, 1-2 die/drop within 10-20 years, that's 8 players left, 4 are friends ... the others stay solo ... guess who has already lost? (Or at least has a huge disadvantage.) Unless those solo 4 bond together which they might not want simply because they want to try it on their own, they will be forced to start playing a style/game they don't want to play! Their fun is gone ... Have been there too.
And when the team of 4 have wiped out the 4 solo players the chance is very slim they will start fighting amongst theirselves, have seen that happening too many times.
True about the skills, also because some people underestimate themself or overestimate ...
kind regards,
mch
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Wed, 15 January 2003 22:28 |
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zoid | | Ensign | Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002 Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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I'm a veteran player with newbie skill who never gets better cuz I'm dumb and never learn, plus I can't do math!
Now, what was I going to say again? Oh yeah!
Can I play?
Can I, huh?
Can I, huh?
Can I?
I don't care if I'm fodder.
I'll be nice this time, too. No shooting scouts and stuff. Um, if I have to.
Hey, I have a better idea! Why don't we all just be mean to each other, no nicey-nicey slobbering and grovelling diplomats allowed! Just think of all the time you'll save on diplomacy!
PS: I love smilies
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Ummm, sure! I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Thu, 16 January 2003 02:05 |
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OK when I said 2 peaceful that literally means that. peaceful - no aggression but no help.
The diplomatics could be discussed between players but it wont be any more than 1 ally, 2 neutral. It all depends on how many play too!
I've now got someone to race check thank you muchly.
And as mentioned some players underestimate themselves. Granted I've only been playing in a game with the Zoid for a few turns but he took up a good political stance and if he stuck to his guns (even though he didn't have any) he may have pulled it off despite his race weakness - but he caved and told the truth.
And yeah you can play Zoid.
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Thu, 16 January 2003 08:37 |
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I'd say turn a day until 2420 (no weekends) and then every 48 hours until 2450 and every 72 hours onwards. Or unless we all turn in.
I had a moement of inspiration at work as well...
If we could get 10 players, each playing ONE of the PRT's it could be very interesting.
At the end of the game when a winner/s is/are decided ALL the race specs will be posted to everyone (probably on the forum) along with the the top ranks in each of the fields every 10 turns from 2420 onwards (public player scores will be on)
A race can only have 1 alliance - all else enemies at war.
But as I may have mentioned this is all totally open - nothing is set in stone yet, especially since there has been very little interest so far.
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Thu, 16 January 2003 10:52 |
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Since I'll probably fill the last gap in the PRT's theres currently no-one occupying ANY prt - so if you want one then get your interest e-mail ASAP.
But yeah if 10 people want to play then we'll play. I'll ask if anyone wants to change PRT but if no-one does then we'll play as it is. I don't want to discourage anyone from playing just because they wanna be CA or IT or anything.
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Thu, 16 January 2003 11:28 |
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Micha | | | Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002 Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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Hm, AR will have a very hard time without ISB, not saying they can't live without it, but AR is not an easy PRT and this will only make it worse. Next to that no IFE (less fuel consumption) and no FM so crappy engines which means more pop dieing in transit because of longer journeys ...
Also the restricted number of friends is another disadvantage for an AR, they will have too many enemies from the start and will be considered the easiest victim even more than in other games.
PP with the most negative points and no LRTs to compensate ...
I must agree with pgarnold, CA and JoaT are too easy, wouldn't want to play them, and I'll never pick HE either.
Just let people play whatever they want (seeing your last post you are already willing to do that), the "no LRT" theme is enough, keep it pure and don't mix it with another theme ("being 10 different PRTs") ...
regards,
mch
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Thu, 16 January 2003 11:33 |
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Micha | | | Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002 Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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I like that schedule, just finished a game with 24h all the way, it was hell because towards the end I owned almost half of a medium universe
72h might be a little too much (afteral diplomacy might be minimal )... usually sticking with 3 gens a week (Mo-Tue-Fr for example) works better, it's nice to know how late the game will gen every time (unless all players are in, don't like a total strict schedule) ...
[Edit:] Oh, and I like the idea of getting all specs posted, when I host a game I encourage players to exchange passwords so they know what they were exactly fighting, they can learn more from it that way.
Quote: | A race can only have 1 alliance - all else enemies at war.
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So no longer 1 friend and 2 neutral?
regards,
mch
[Updated on: Thu, 16 January 2003 11:37] Report message to a moderator
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Thu, 16 January 2003 18:38 |
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zoid | | Ensign | Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002 Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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freakyboy wrote on Thu, 16 January 2003 07:52 | . . . theres currently no-one occupying ANY prt - so if you want one then get your interest e-mail ASAP.
| Everything besides HE is pretty new to me so I'm fairly versatile.
I will not play an AR (because I can't figure it out) nor HE (see my most recent postings in the HE topic).
I'd rather not play PP (too expensive with no real gain that I can appreciate), but I might consider giving the PP another shot if it's desired for PRT diversity. I'll gladly fill the role of any of the remaining seven PRT's, though I have little or no experience with them in multi-player games.
My history: first game I played an IT in a huge universe (I shamefully confess that I bailed out of that game early thinking I hadn't any chance - poor etiquette, I know), second game a PP in a tiny sparse galaxy (Don't remember what happened to that game), JOAT in a small galaxy (I got eliminated first by the 3% tri-immune HE next door), and I've played HE every since.
Quote: | I would prefer the 1 ally and 2 neutrals.
| Since diplomacy has never been my strong suit, I prefer all enemies. But, whatever!
[Updated on: Thu, 16 January 2003 18:46]
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Ummm, sure! I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Fri, 17 January 2003 07:50 |
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As i've mentioned- I'm open to suggestions.
I think actually *if* played right and with the right ally an AR could do wonders in this kind of game.
Yeah it's true they'll have some major problems to get past (esp. IFE) but on the whole they don't have to deal with not taking ORBM as most wide hab races will have wanted to take. AR's tech advantage can really come into it's own especially if they take cheap propulsion tech as everyone (bar IT and JOAT) will be running round with the warp 6 engine to start - AR could easily bump up to the warp 8 in no time flat.
A rad immune AR could work wonders with the radiation ram scoop too.
I'll let anyone pick anything they want - including CA because although CA is still an economic powerhouse they don't have TT which will slow them down a bit and close the gap up. They also wont be able to freely trade the orbital terraformers due to the sheer number of enemies (yes that 1 ally, and buggar all else).
No LRT's cuts out alot of game variation but it makes the PRT choice MUCH more important.
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Fri, 17 January 2003 09:43 |
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Micha | | | Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002 Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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Quote: |
I think actually *if* played right and with the right ally an AR could do wonders in this kind of game.
Yeah it's true they'll have some major problems to get past (esp. IFE) but on the whole they don't have to deal with not taking ORBM as most wide hab races will have wanted to take. AR's tech advantage can really come into it's own especially if they take cheap propulsion tech as everyone (bar IT and JOAT) will be running round with the warp 6 engine to start - AR could easily bump up to the warp 8 in no time flat.
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Well, AR is indeed a tremendous researcher but you forget that an AR NEEDS to research ENY, CON AND WEAP, so these three fields "HAVE" (I use "-s because it's just _my_ opinion for a good AR) to be cheap and that's do-able with an AR, picking also cheap prop is "impossible", again MHO, probably not compeletly impossible but a LOT LOT harder and very close to impossible, it will all depend on if their neighbours let them grow or just decide to quickly kill the AR and grow in his space.
AR "always" does well with _the_right_ally _from_the_start_. You don't have a second chance if you pick the wrong one since the first one will eat you alive if he turns against you.
Or if the first one is a lousy player than you're in deep trouble too since he won't give you the defense you need.
I've won a game with an AR (medium universe, about 10 players) but only because I met a WM early on (in the 20's I think) that decided not to kill me off (he EASILY could have since ARs are VERY weak in the beginning) but instead decided to help me. He knew that if I stayed alive and that if we stayed allied our alliance would become unstoppable, as we did.
The WM and I had met in a previous game as enemies and we both knew we were decent skilled players and also trustworthy, if it would have been an unknown player which skills I overestimated things might have turned out a lot worse ...
Quote: | A rad immune AR could work wonders with the radiation ram scoop too.
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Without NRSE everybody has to research to prop16 to get the warp10 engine, the (here absent) IFE+NRSE combo lets you stop researching prop for ever after your reach level 12, never reaching the prop16 terraforming, so grav immune is obvious in that situation, here it's not.
Rad immune will make the weap16 terra useless, and that's a tech you WILL research. Being AR you'll have eny16 too for sure (IF you live long enough of course), so temp immune also wastes a terra level ...
The only thing that migh tip the scale is the rad ram since after the FM it's "the" best alternative, so rad immune might indeed be the best choice ...
Quote: | I'll let anyone pick anything they want - including CA because although CA is still an economic powerhouse they don't have TT which will slow them down a bit and close the gap up. They also wont be able to freely trade the orbital terraformers due to the sheer number of enemies (yes that 1 ally, and buggar all else).
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That the CA can't have TT won't close the gap up, they still will be a lot stronger than other races. And NOT allying with one is the most stupid thing you could do. If there is only one CA than the player which allies with him will be in the winning duo ...
I usually play team games and if there is a team with no CA they are lost from the start, if there is only one team with a CA they have already won ...
Quote: | No LRT's cuts out alot of game variation but it makes the PRT choice MUCH more important.
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Yup, PRT is much more important, but economic model too!
-f will be harder here, you are stuck with no OBRM, planet resource base becomes even smaller and you won't use remote miners anyway since you will have a large hab and will need every planet to live on.
And you won't have ISB so no space docks to build your early hordes, you'll have to build a lot more expensive starbase. No ISB and no IFE also mean a slower tempo of spreading out and grabbing space ...
kind regards,
mch
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Fri, 17 January 2003 10:35 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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Quote: | That the CA can't have TT won't close the gap up, they still will be a lot stronger than other races. And NOT allying with one is the most stupid thing you could do. If there is only one CA than the player which allies with him will be in the winning duo ...
I usually play team games and if there is a team with no CA they are lost from the start, if there is only one team with a CA they have already won ...
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Although much of what you say has truth, I disagree strongly with this statement. Racism has no place in Stars!
I recall more than a couple team games where CA opponents did not win.
I recall several alliance games where CA opponents did not win.
I recall many games where CA did not win.
Stars! has many variables that affect the outcome of the games. Two of the most important are experience and skill. Statements that one race is always dominant or it is stupid not to ally with CA are incorrect.
I am just finishing a game where an IT, JOAT, SS group just made a strong victory by surrender over a CA, JOAT, WM group. And the game is only in the 2460's. Frankly, I don't feel stupid at all having chosen my allies. So much for the dominant CA theory, eh?
"There is no gravity. The earth sucks." And PP's suck too.
[Updated on: Fri, 17 January 2003 10:36]
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Fri, 17 January 2003 11:11 |
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Micha | | | Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002 Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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Ok, I was a little bit thing too much black/white here, there are of course grey area's. True a CA will not _always_ make you win, but it's one of the best choices.
There are indeed a lot more factors that determine a game, agreed skill is one of the most important ones, allying with a newbie CA while other players are intermediate/advance is not a guarantee you will win.
Also _when_ you ally with a CA is important and when other the other alliances where formed. Or more super-normal factors like not meeting the MT that's giving 10 TLs while everybody does meet the MT ...
Or ecomonic models, if there is a -f neighbour hitting you as soon as he can than terra help of course comes too late ...
When winning comes down to who has the bigger economy (and that happens most of the time) and everybody has more or less equal skills than the best race you can ally with is a CA.
Of course when you get too big everybody allies against you ...
As for teamgames, I've never seen a team without a CA win, a CA is not only a very strong race itself but also gives an enormous boost to his teammates, not having a CA makes you waste much rersources in terra (not to mention the capacity you lose not having a TT CA) and against equal players you just gave yourself a huge disadvantage which is hard to make up with other stuff ...
Teams are by standard CA+IT+other, which is boring therefor when I host teamgames I ban CAs (sometimes even ITs).
Oh, and I will not always ally with a CA myself, even if I say it is stupid, I always try to make alliances in such a way that the game stays fun and interesting, like I will never help number one beating up the little guys even if that means I become the target of number one.
And then things of course change when I become number one myself ...
regards,
mch
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Fri, 17 January 2003 12:14 |
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pgarnold | | Petty Officer 3rd Class | Messages: 48
Registered: November 2002 Location: near Washington, D.C. | |
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freakyboy wrote on Fri, 17 January 2003 07:50 | As i've mentioned- I'm open to suggestions.
I think actually *if* played right and with the right ally an AR could do wonders in this kind of game.
Yeah it's true they'll have some major problems to get past (esp. IFE) {snip}. AR's tech advantage can really come into it's own especially if they take cheap propulsion tech as everyone (bar IT and JOAT) will be running round with the warp 6 engine to start - AR could easily bump up to the warp 8 in no time flat.
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I think the AR could be made playable IF you allow them to go with one LRT, ISB. Without that one LRT, they are doomed.
Quote: | I'll let anyone pick anything they want - including CA {snip} No LRT's cuts out alot of game variation but it makes the PRT choice MUCH more important.
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Would like to suggest we allow ISB if one wants to play AR only. Otherwise, no LRTs for anyone. If this one exception is not made for AR, I don't think it will be played by anyone. Even with this one exception, AR will be very difficult (with no IFE). As far as the CA goes, my position is that if one shows up, I will do my best to make them the pariah of the Universe and kick their ass first.
Paul
The Destructor
[Updated on: Fri, 17 January 2003 12:20] Report message to a moderator
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Re: No LRT's game!!! |
Fri, 17 January 2003 16:51 |
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We'll do a dense universe.
And just to make (or break) a point *I SHALL* play AR just to see if such a thing can be done.
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