| Is this cheationg (another issue) |
Wed, 05 May 2004 05:17  |
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 Robert |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany | |
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Hi all...
This is not from an actual game, just fiction - still relevant.
We all know about the cheap starbase trick:
If the base is not finished yet, you can still edit the design and pay only the %to finished for the additional cost.
No discussion - this is cheating...
but:
Imagine you build a base on a planet, full with beams, armor, missles, whatever. Usually built in 2 turns. After the first
turn (production finished say 60%) something happens so you cant finish it as planned in another turn (packet hits and kills some pop, all minerals, say boranium stolen with robber, random event, whatever).
You can now modify the design and _downgrade_ it, e.g. remove all the beamers so you dont need that many boranium, or something, so you now finish the base in the next turn anyway.
This is an abuse of the coding bug that allows you to edit bases while being built, but on the other hand you dont get something you did not pay for (in fact some of the mins/resources you spent in the first turn are wasted)...
So - is this cheating?
I am not sure, but it would be interesting to discuss this 
Any thoughts someone?
Robert
2b v !2b -> ?Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Is this cheationg (another issue) |
Wed, 05 May 2004 15:25  |
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Chaff is taking advantage of a 'bug' in the targetting system, so is that cheating? I think the bottom line there was how it affected the game.
In this case it is not clear if it is a bug that a starbase can be modified before completion. It could have always been intended and the only bug may be that a modification to 'add' stuff isn't charged enough after semi completion. 'Removing' stuff means some half built lasers are not completed but thrown out, which is plausable.
The game allows starbases to be incrementally upgraded at no extra cost (compared to all upgrades at once), so it is not clear what was intended and what is really the 'bug'.
[Updated on: Wed, 05 May 2004 15:42] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Is this cheationg (another issue) |
Wed, 05 May 2004 23:30 |
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Chaff doesn't take advantage of any bug. The targetting system was designed afaict in full knowledge that things like this could be used, though probably not expected to be worth the cost.
Onto a tangent, I'd like to see in advanced versions of FreeStars a different dialog in the battle plans menu to change how enemy ships are targeted - instead of targetting armed ships / bombers / etc, you could target with priority to:
most firepower
most/least defense
greatest firepower/defense ratio (default)
greatest cost
highest/lowest speed
highest/lowest weight
Some others might be useful as well.
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| Re: Is this cheationg (another issue) |
Mon, 02 August 2004 11:14 |
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| Steve1 |
 | Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003
Location: Australia | |
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| Quote: |
I agree that this is not an easy issue and I could live with other solutions also, but to be fair for all players I would suggest the following simple rule:
"Starbase must not be edited at all while building."
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Well in real life if you begin to build a structure (of whatever type) and then run short of funds, you can still build the shell and add fewer features, so downgrading the starbase in mid build shouldn't really be a problem on that basis.
If you're concerned about the integrity of players and whether they will adhere to the rule then you (as host) would have to randomly check each race file every so often, because they could cheat without being obvious otherwise.
I always wondered what the cheap starbase cheat was.
Since I see no point in gaining undue advantage in the game, then it's of no especial consequence to how I play, but unfortunately not everyone sees it that way. That explains why some hosts have begun to ban IT !!! 
I realise that it's one of the more powerful races, but banning IT and allowing CA never made much sense to me until now.
All the same, any race besides AR could easily gain a great deal from such a cheat. All you have to do is upgrade a whole heap of starbases in the same year.
Surely there must be some better way of detecting this. Relying on players integrity is not very comforting, unless you know them quite well. I was one of the lucky players in that game "Summer" with everyone's best mate - Gregor Vorbarra - and it's made me twice as wary (and observant).
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| multi chaff? (was: Re: Is this cheationg) |
Mon, 02 August 2004 11:44 |
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| perece |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia | |
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| Coyote wrote on Wed, 05 May 2004 23:30 |
Chaff doesn't take advantage of any bug. The targetting system was designed afaict in full knowledge that things like this could be used, though probably not expected to be worth the cost.
Onto a tangent, I'd like to see in advanced versions of FreeStars a different dialog in the battle plans menu to change how enemy ships are targeted - instead of targetting armed ships / bombers / etc, you could target with priority to:
most firepower
most/least defense
greatest firepower/defense ratio (default)
greatest cost
highest/lowest speed
highest/lowest weight
Some others might be useful as well.
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Oh well.. it will not eliminate chaff, it will just bring more types of chaff (like cheap heavy ships - tritan armored frigate? or myoptic disruptor (or just miniblaster) scout - for best dam/def and still being reasonably cheap).
all these types must be used together since You don't know which battle order Your opponent set for next battle.
this doesn't kill chaff as a class, but gives it another whole dimension. assuming we still not allowing absolutistic targeting like "maximum firepower per token" (while maximum per ship will be nice... or vice versa?)
SMTP /Perece/.
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| Re: Is this cheationg (another issue) |
Mon, 02 August 2004 13:56 |
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| Steve1 |
| Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003
Location: Australia | |
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This quote is from Kotk in another thread:
| Quote: |
Some players do not cheat by default. Some players cheat if it is not explicitly forbidden.
Finally there are kids who cheat whenever they only can. To my knowledge there are very few of them playing Stars! and they are usually weak players. Stars! game takes some patience and cheaters usually have none.
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Good point there and I must say that it gives me a little more faith and some satisfaction that besides the obvious, there is another downside to cheating. 
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