Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » Babylon 5 - A new game idea
 Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Thu, 17 June 2004 09:29  |
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 slms |
 | Crewman 2nd Class |
Messages: 18
Registered: March 2004
Location: Portugal | |
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Hi people,
I like strategy and role play so I'm trying to mix them in stars to create a new game based on a crazy idea. I will use the theme of Babylon 5 TV Series as a background for this new game I want to host.
PS: As a newbie, I appreciate the help and suggestion of any expert players so the game can be actually playable, balanced and fare.
PS: Sorry for the long message...
1) The game settings are:
- Host WILL NEVER play. This restriction also I applies to anyone who wants to help the host as an observer (see Babylon 5 Private Forum information).
- Universe Size: Large,
- Density: Normal,
- NO Beginner Maximum Minerals
- Slower Tech Advances
- Accelerated BBS,
- Random Events,
- NO Public Player Scores,
- Galaxy Clumping.
- Players:
* 2 Advanced Players: The Shadows and The Vorlons
* 1 Special Host Player: The jumpgate Network (friend to all)
* 8-10 Beginner/intermediate Players: Can not be SS, IS or IT.
- Chaff and split fleet allowed, Other cheats banned.
- Victory Conditions: Special
* The Shadows win the game if the Vorlons HW is defeated;
* The Vorlon win the game if the Shadows HW is defeated;
* For the other players, the victory conditions are:
- If they are associated with Vorlons and Shadow HW is defeated, they win with Vorlons;
- If they are associated with Shadows and Vorlon HW is defeated, they win with Shadows;
- If any player or associated players defeated Shadows and Vorlon HWs, they win alone.
- Turns: Special
All turns must be submitted within 24H frame with the following restrictions:
* "Signs and Portents" (2400-2450?):
Only shadows and vorlons can submit turns.
Other players don't play.
Shadows and Vorlons can ONLY attack each other FLEETS and COLONIES.
* "The Coming of Shadows" (2450-2500):
All players submit turns.
Except from Shadow and Vorlons, there is no restriction for other players.
Shadows and Vorlons can attack each other FLEETS and COLONIES.
Shadows and Vorlons can attack other players FLEETS ONLY.
* "Point of No Return" (2500+):
All players submit turns. No restriction's applies to any player.
- Vorlon and Shadow Race:
* The Vorlons and Shadows must have the smallest habitat range possible in all 3 environment.
They can colonize other planets if they found then, but still only HW defeat counts for victory.
* Shadow and Vorlon will know each other HW location from turn 1.
* Vorlon must be a IS race.
* Shadow must be a SS race.
- Babylon 5 (Private Forums and information system):
First, all messages between players must also be sent to the host/observers who will keep track of politic, economic and military information in the universe. The host/observers will also look at players turns from time to time to gather information for the Babylon 5 Forum.
The forum news starts to become online in the "The Coming of Shadows" phase.
The idea is that "things" will eventually be know at Babylon 5 Station by rumors, ISN new, etc...
Those information will be delayed depending on how secret it is, but sooner or later, others will now.
Here are some examples of the topics:
- ISN Economics [Each turn]: The top 10 most rich (resources) planets in the universe are posted each turn.
(Only name, no value for actual resources. Also the rich mineral planets (mineral extraction) are also
reported here. Exception for Shadow and Vorlon data that never appears)
- ISN News [Each turn]: Politic public associations, wars, new jumpgate points and great events are reported here as needed.
- ISN Rumors [turn delay]: Any rumor is posted here with a delay (depending on how secret the players
want it and how big it is the impact in the universe). For example:
* If a player vessel is destroyed without war, 2 turns later it's missing is report.
* If some player developer a new technology that others don't have yet, a rumor appears 3 turns later.
* A se
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| Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Thu, 17 June 2004 17:13  |
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Suggestion that only 100/250 gates are allowed by other races, gateless would require limitations on HE race.
As well, think first 50 years boring for everyone else to wait. Instead Shadows and Vorlons should get head start, perhaps first x turns automatically generated without user input but only Vorlons and Shadows have useful orders.
Or perhaps a special start with Vorlons and Shadows getting some special ships and scrappers in the beginning. After all, Shadows did dig up a bunch of warships from previous 1000 year old conflict that were waiting, and who knows what Vorlons dug up.
And in spirit of show, Shadows and Vorlons did not really directly fight each other for a long, long time. Shadows were able to be more directly in fighting, Vorlons joining even a little came at price of losing first Koch.
Would be fun to make victory conditions, etc for 2 advanced players closer to goals of these 2 forces in the show. For example victory for Shadows might involve a certain number of races biting the dust, others getting Shadow help, etc. While Vorlons would want to preserve races but eliminate any contaminated by Shadows.
And a full victory by others would be getting everyone to gang up on both Advanced players and be the strongest remaining.
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| Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Fri, 18 June 2004 12:23 |
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| LEit |
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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IS that hits elec 14 will fairly easily remove the stealth advantage that an SS has. And once the IS hits con 26, they will have a stealth capacity. Of course a OWW has major problems hitting tech 26. But a 14 is doable.
The overpop bonus isn't too minor, on a 100% world with OBRM, it gives a bonus of 1100 resources (with a 1/1000 race, which, IMO, is what every IS should be).
The problem is going to be at about 2500, when the non-OWW races have close to parity with the OWWs, from then on, the OWWs power will decline rapidly.
Note the rules didn't specify that the habs had to be pushed to one side or the other, just min width, that's 1/93 according to the race wizard (which isn't very accurate I think).
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Sat, 19 June 2004 07:55 |
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Some more thoughts...
Signs and Portents (phase 1)
Vorlons and Shadows are only players who are moving (or doing anything)
I believe it would be reasonable to expect a timeframe in which the two races could achieve a level of tech 16 across the board...
Why tech 16?
Well, in weapons that would give the Heavy Blaster, Epsilon, and Jugs; Cherries, LBU-74, Enriched Neutron. Reasonably advanced weapons.
In Engines it would most likely give an engine which can travel at warp 10 (TGMS,IS-10)
They would have battleships, and ultra station if they chose it.
They would most likely be at their max in terraform.
They would most likely be at their max in pen scan (elephant, Snooper 500X)
Their shielding would be reasonable, Gorilla, Planetary Shield.
They would be a menace in terms of tech, but not so much of a menace that it couldn't be envisioned that they wipe everyone else off the map before they can stand up.
And, I figure that it would take about 100 years for a 1WW to get to this point... 30 years to max pop and factories, and 70 years+/- to achieve tech 16 across the board.
Mind you, what they choose to research and do with their time is entirely up to the controlling player 
[Updated on: Sat, 19 June 2004 07:56] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Sat, 19 June 2004 09:41 |
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| LEit |
| Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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For scenario purposes, if you want to give a race (or more) a tech advantage, you can use a cost-0 setup to build some scrappers, and then go to normal costs and start scrapping them.
You can also give one or more races a big stockpile of minerals this way.
Note, you can still only get 1 tech a turn, so getting every tech to 16 (96 tech levels) will take several years. It can be sped up a lot if you research the lower levels, and scrap for the higher levels.
I did it to set up Wonka, every race started with 1,000,000 of each mineral, and the host races started with a big pile of scrappers. It is year 2490, and I'm still scrapping (and several player races, who had no tech help, have higher tech then the host races). If you need help setting that up, I can give you some help.
[Updated on: Sat, 19 June 2004 09:42]
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Sat, 19 June 2004 14:06 |
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| slms |
| Crewman 2nd Class |
Messages: 18
Registered: March 2004
Location: Portugal | |
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Hi,
donjon wrote: 1) 50 years will be too short a time to jumpstart a OWW race...
Agree... Please read below to see more about my full ideia of balancing and give me some guidance
The game is boring in this phase so we need to force generate turns (5 or 10 each time) or use LEit idea:
LEit wrote: For scenario purposes, if you want to give a race (or more) a tech advantage, you can use a cost-0 setup to build some scrappers, and then go to normal costs and start scrapping them.
It's sound like possibility for the First Phase, but you need to tell me how you do this 
dojon wrote: 2) In the series the Vorlons and Shadows were "mostly" inactive
That is the best idea. But 5 turns maybe to much... What do you think about that: during the Second Phase (2450-2500) Vorlon plays on even turns and shadows on odd ones... All races plays normal.
Platon79 wrote: Like "Lesser races must have +75% on all techs".
I think that it is also a good idea. One thing that is sure is that in this game All High Tech (Nubs, Superlatanium, etc) should be the exception if even exists at all... Maybe we could restrict all other minor races to be +75% research (no starting at 3), and somehow limited to an HP design, having 2500 colonist/res...
But what to do with HE and AR in these cases? 
Also, someone ask about Vorlon and Shadow hab. They are limited to the minimum only. You can put their hab range anywhere. If you want, you can also select TT...
There was another person who mention that WM could be a better race for Vorlons... I didn't understand why... 
Last, I think that is best to write down my full idea of time and balance when I came out with this scenario. I also include some suggested restrictions that could be usefully:
- First Phase: (2400-2450?):
* Shadow and Vorlons build their economy and increase their research.
* They can build scouts to know the universe or Remote Miners to get more mineral.
* No colonization or mine fields at this time. (NEW)
* No combat allowed in this phase to any race, including Major ones. Vorlon and Shadows can build fleets if they want but these must stay in HW until 2450...
BALANCE IDEA: At the end of this phase Vorlon OR Shadow Economic/Research alone should be superior to the sum of economics/research of all minor races, but equal to each other. Vorlon and Shadows should also have knowledge about the universe and some combat fleets they can use next phase... They have only 1 world (HW).
- Second Phase (2450-2500?):
* Minor races step in, vorlons and shadow are some how partially inactive.
* Vorlon and Shadows can colonize (colonies == outposts);
* Vorlon and Shadows can attack any race fleet and each other colonies;
* ALL HW cannot be attacked by any race.
* Diplomatic phase: Minor races will be contacted to for Vorlon and Shadow Alliance. Alliances are permanent and each alliance should be limited to 1 major race + max 2 minor races. The full alliances will be reveled at 2500 to all players.
BALANCE IDEA: At the end of this phase, the "Vorlon + Shadow" economics should be equal to the sum of each minor races, and equal to each other. Shadow and Vorlon plays a really "tricky and diplomatic game" choosing which minor race will be "recruited". They can attack each other, or minor races fleets only. Minor races can attack each others fleets and colonies. All races survive this phase as no HW can be attacked.
- Third Phase (2500-2550+): By this time, vorlon and shadows are running against the clock. Their economics should drop bellow others as time passes, their permanent allies will help them a bit, but the minor alliance are now a true rival... Open war begins....
BALANCE IDEA: FULL WAR, game should end 25-50 turns after.
I'm really not sure how to keep the balance of these phases... I'm starting doing testbeds to see how things goes, but CA and Joat are quite exponential and AR and HE are a total disaster... 
Also, now I think that Stargates and Mass Drivers should no
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| Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Sat, 19 June 2004 15:01 |
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| Strat |
 | Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 62
Registered: March 2004 | |
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What if the game was done this way:
A template is made where the Vorlons are Shadows are played by a host or someone up to a certain point. This allows control over what they have, and where thay are at in many aspects. You can set them up exatcly the way they need to be set.
These files be saved, and all future games are started from this point. This allows it so that any players wanting to participate do not have to wait at all.
It would have to be that all races are predesigned for this game type, but is that a big problem? If we can come up with race designs that fit each B5 race, I think that adds to the realism...
It would also mean that people would have the same universe map, but that might noe be too bad, I doubt there will be many instances of this game type running, but if so, it would not take long for a single person to play out the Vorlons and Shadows up to the phase 2 level and have another B5 game ready.
This would also mean that the Jump Gate race could already be in place as well.
This makes it just over all a good starting point to me, then everyone can jump in and play thier roles.
Does my idea make since to you all?
[Updated on: Sat, 19 June 2004 15:05] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Sat, 19 June 2004 15:37 |
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| Strat wrote on Sat, 19 June 2004 13:01 |
What if the game was done this way:
A template is made where the Vorlons are Shadows are played by a host or someone up to a certain point. This allows control over what they have, and where thay are at in many aspects. You can set them up exatcly the way they need to be set.
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Hmmm,
Well here are *my* thoughts...
The creation of the "Babylon 5 Series" was a conglomeration of efforts of various writers. Some of the races which were introduced were not so interesting and so they got little replay time later in the series. The basic underlying thread was masterminded by Harlan Ellison, I do believe... but entries were taken from many sources.
Hardwiring the universe setup and the race designs would make it easier to get to the "meat" of the game but would reduce the replay value of the scenario and therefore defeat the whole purpose of hardwiring in the first place.
Also, If the Vorlon player has design control over his/her race then he/she can choose what techs are most important... and how much the homeworld will produce (and how many worlds they can take over effectively later) the assumption is 1WW... but there is quite a variance even within that tight definition.
And, what if a player wishes to play the Borg? Just because they weren't in the scenario as it was shown in the series... why couldn't they???
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| Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea |
Sat, 19 June 2004 15:53 |
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| Strat |
| Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 62
Registered: March 2004 | |
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Well, if a person decide to host the game, it take little effort to create a new game. You can force gen all turns, play each turn in a few minutes at a time, for the first 50 (1st Phase turns) little is happening.
A host can make varioations. In fact, all people who wish to play can submit races if a host wants such a game, then load the races, play the Shadows and Vorlons for the first phase, then post the game on the server for all the participants to play.
For replay value you are corect, a host would have to make a new template for every game.
As for the Vorlon example with greater control, from what I see about 1st Phase setup, there's very little control they have. You have to meet many rules about what you are even allowed to have, and then there are rules about what you Must have.
Personally, I'm content with the idea of premade races, I like the realism idea.
[Updated on: Sat, 19 June 2004 15:59] Report message to a moderator
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). It is where this race will build factories for research CON and PROP for the SB and Orbitals.
Re: Babylon 5 - A new game idea
).