Hello!
I am so surprised to find an active Stars forum. I have been playing Stars for about 3 years...just mainly against the AI, and when I get bored of other games, dust never collects on Stars for me. I have never actually played a game with others, because basically I don't know how. But I have always enjoyed the game, even though I am probably a novice compared to many of you here.

But how excited I am to find that Stars is still being played by others...I have friends who frown on me because I "play such a cheesy game"...but to me it's one of the best strategy games I've every played, and they never could understand it..."stick to your FPS"... I tell them

SOOOO... I'm going to search this forum on many of the questions I have always had about the game...first off...mainly how do you join in on a game with others...and then I know there are many tools and modules that can be used with Stars...must find the best ones to use.

I guess my biggest strategic quorum with the Stars AI is, if I manage to stay ahead of them with torpedo development, the beam weapons don't really seem to matter to much to me...I found it a better advantage to be able to battle in a stand off role rather then taking damage on battleships/cruisers/destroyers by getting in close for beam weapons. What are the advantage of the laser type weapons, other then having the greatest power in the early part of development...(bludgeon)?

Sorry about my zealous...it's just cool to see that others playing this game...actively.

[Updated on: Mon, 31 May 2004 01:40]

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HI


First off, keeping an eye out here is a great way to find a game - there's quite a few beginner level games starting.


Second, the advantage of beams is mainly an issue of cost - missile ships use a lot of iron, which means you'll only be able to produce a very few. Beam ships require mostly Boranium which isn't as high in demand. Secondly, unarmored beam battleships can squeeze through stargates quite well, meaning they'll be able to get to the battle a lot easier.

And then, there's the Chaff tactic. Build a few hundred of a ship like this: frigate hull, one qj5 engine, one red laser, nothing else. Carry them with your battle fleet. They'll jump in the way of incoming missiles, sparing your fleets (the battle targeting system sees them as easier kills, one missile can kill only one ship). Just beware of fast beam ships that can run up and clear them all in one shot. These are only really economical once Juggernaut missiles are out in force. Plus, you can split them into many fleets of one and ram into a minefield at warp 10 if you need it swept *now* and are willing to lose 20 or so little ships to win the battle instead of losing.

The AI is nothing at all like human players. Humans are sneaky and devious and occasionally very useful.

[Updated on: Mon, 31 May 2004 02:27]

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Greetings, hope you'll have fun!

zentrait wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 07:38

But how excited I am to find that Stars is still being played by others...I have friends who frown on me because I "play such a cheesy game"...but to me it's one of the best strategy games I've every played, and they never could understand it..."stick to your FPS"... I tell them

You're right, for most strategy games it takes only reading manual and ~10-20 hours to know optimal strategies, in stars even some of those playing since 10 years say there's always something new.

zentrait wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 07:38

SOOOO... I'm going to search this forum on many of the questions I have always had about the game...first off...mainly how do you join in on a game with others...and then I know there are many tools and modules that can be used with Stars...must find the best ones to use.

For new games look at New Game Annoucements, the game "New ranked game: Landrush (beginner)" looks fine to start with and might still have a place open. Just mail the host your passworded race file and you will be in, if there's still place.
Test your race both in a empty universe and against AI, you should perform at least better in resources from turn 30 on with your race than predefined Humanoids under same conditions. If you intend to play landrush, take weapons cheap, with only 3 other players its unlikely weapon tech can be traded from someone else(more likely they'll attack you when you tell them you need weapon tech).

Last version of stars(JRC4) are here on autohost at http://library.southern.edu/stars/kn2050.htm
but as far as i know no more than bug fixes.

There are also useful tools, most important "starscalc", that can calculate most things, like accuray after jamming and computers, cloaking, i ships with different cloaking values are mixed, effect of bomber and packets against so much defense and pop, ...

Also great is battlesim at http://www.starsfaq.com/download.htm#utils
Its simply a game with 16 human players, maxed tech, all MT toys and most possible combinations of lesser racial and primary racial traits. There you can, if you know ship designs, test outcome of battles, by rebuilding the fleets and testing several times(and look at all those good and bad MT toys).

zentrait wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 07:38

I guess my biggest strategic quorum with the Stars AI is, if I manage to stay ahead of them with torpedo development, the beam weapons don't really seem to matter to much to me...I found it a better advantage to be able to battle in a stand off role rather then taking damage on battleships/cruisers/destroyers by getting in close for beam weapons. What are the advantage of the laser type weapons, other then having the greatest power in the early part of development...(bludgeon)?

Above said is right, but further reason is jamming and high speed, take starscalc and see how accuracy changes with diiferent amounts of computers and jammers. A Nubian beamer(construction 26) can easily get 88% jamming and speed 2.25, then your missle ships have only 2-3 shots with accuracy ~35%, before those ships are in beamer range. That can be enough, but if you use same amount of ironium and build 2 fleets, one with high jammed fast beamers, the other with missles(not torpedos), the beamers will win, though they suffer heavy losses.
Also remember, humans will try to seek battles they believe they'll win and avoid battles they believe they'll lose, so not like computer sending in ship after ship, but stacking lots of them and then attack.

zentrait wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 07:38

Sorry about my zealous...it's just cool to see that others playing this game...actively.

It's cool you are zealous.

Carn

(i'm just a beginner myself, i hope the things i said are correct, please some expert correct me if i wrote something wrong.)

(And tip i know i'm correct about: Never play a race with Primal Racial Trait Hyper Expansion in a large or bigger universe, when time per turn is 2

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Coyote wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 02:25

The AI is nothing at all like human players. Humans are sneaky and devious and occasionally very useful.

Ahhh...and that makes me happy. I was getting into a routine with the Stars AI. Obviously by what I've read, I've been creating some bad habits playing only the AI.

Carn wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 03:36

Test your race both in a empty universe and against AI, you should perform at least better in resources from turn 30 on with your race than predefined Humanoids under same conditions. If you intend to play landrush, take weapons cheap, with only 3 other players its unlikely weapon tech can be traded from someone else(more likely they'll attack you when you tell them you need weapon tech).

I guess I have a lot of catching up to do, playing only the AI and small or tiny universes I have played the game in a microscope...developing bad tactics. Usually the races I develop for my own games are strictly "confined" to their own planet because I allow for little or no room for their expansion due to their planetary traits, using more of the beginning points to add to the general race options and lessoning the cost on weapons and hulls as well as being able to produce more resource per population. I am always behind in resource development...and in turn...use the AI's stupidity against it...one way is by sending out slow moving fast scouts that can escape a battle but draw a crowd, and at the same time gain tech levels from different AI races battling each other as they chase this slow moving fast scout away from my home planet...obviously this can't be used against a human opponent.

I'm sure the game is completely different competing against other human players...and must be that much more engaging and fun.

Carn wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 03:36

...humans will try to seek battles they believe they'll win and avoid battles they believe they'll lose, so not like computer sending in ship after ship, but stacking lots of them and then attack.

And that's one of the problems with the AI...it doesn't seem to understand that if it loses a battle at a planet...it will again send the same amount next time...and I do nothing but mop up the resources and tech levels...waiting till I have enough battleships to start my march across the tiny universe...

I appreciate the links, Carn! What is the difference between Stars! and Stars!2, other then the bug fixes? ...anything new on the horizon?

I will definitely try some beginner games...just to see how foolish I am...I'll probably be laughed at more

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Hi!
and welcome.

zentrait wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 18:37

I will definitely try some beginner games...just to see how foolish I am...I'll probably be laughed at more

Read articles on StarsFAQ, esp. aricles on economy. The best to start is http://www.starsfaq.com/articles/25k_by_2450.htm. When you repeatedly manage to get over 25k resources in tiny packed uni with AccBBS start you'll not be laughed at in any beginners game .
BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Mon, 31 May 2004 13:43]

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[Updated on: Mon, 31 May 2004 16:49]

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[Updated on: Tue, 01 June 2004 17:07]

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Carn wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 19:52

...snip... Race styles you describe are called OWW(one-world wonder, when you realy can inhabit only homeworld, habs like 1 in 191) and QS(quickstart, 1 in 8 or less, very good and fast factories and weapon tech) and its not bad habit to play them, depending on circumstances. ...snip... I believe i read QS in small universe can win, especially if rest of players design slower developing races. So you choosing such races in tiny and small universes might not be wrong. Carn

I know you met a QS 1 in 10 race in a large universe that played quite well until you took over rank 1

QS works very well in all sizes of universes. You should check the stars google groups for Jason Cawley (remember that name!!!) articles about race design, especially about 1in10 races with one immunity.
You have impressing early growth, only few but fat green planets, but between year 50 and 100 most others will overtake you and you will run our of minerals much more quickly than others.
QS is not a matter of universe size, it is a matter of winning early cause later you are weak...

Robert

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ForceUser wrote on Sun, 06 June 2004 13:11

There is ofcourse the small problem of most games seeing crash sweeping as a cheat and so dissalowes it.

Huh? Cheat? How, exactly, is crash sweeping a cheat?
I have NEVER heard of it being dissalowed - the only exception would be games where using chaff is banned, and even then, it would only be an indirect consequence.

It doesn't give you too much more of an advantage than using cloaked cruiser sweepers, if you're considering the surprise element. It's very expensive to keep using over and over again, destroyers are much more cost effective though slow. It's basically a matter of how much mineral/resource cost it's worth to you to get a minefield swept rapidly.

[Updated on: Mon, 07 June 2004 16:12]

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Robert wrote on Mon, 07 June 2004 09:24

Carn wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 19:52 ...snip... Race styles you describe are called OWW(one-world wonder, when you realy can inhabit only homeworld, habs like 1 in 191) and QS(quickstart, 1 in 8 or less, very good and fast factories and weapon tech) and its not bad habit to play them, depending on circumstances. ...snip... I believe i read QS in small universe can win, especially if rest of players design slower developing races. So you choosing such races in tiny and small universes might not be wrong. Carn I know you met a QS 1 in 10 race in a large universe that played quite well until you took over rank 1 QS works very well in all sizes of universes. You should check the stars google groups for Jason Cawley (remember that name!!!) articles about race design, especially about 1in10 races with one immunity. You have impressing early growth, only few but fat green planets, but between year 50 and 100 most others will overtake you and you will run our of minerals much more quickly than others. QS is not a matter of universe size, it is a matter of winning early cause later you are weak... Robert

Problem arises, if the 15 others play races with longer strength.
You will be the only one starting war, will bring one enemy down fast and that can bring bad reputation and alliances against you.

Of course if there are some other war hungry and evil guys, no one will care, if you destroy some weak neighbours, as long as you offer some help against bad guys. But do not help them to much, otherwise they do not need you any longer and start to look , what you're doing to some weak races far off, they forgot about while fighting for their life (and then they will count your planets).

Reminds of something ...

Carn

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Coyote wrote on Mon, 07 June 2004 15:08

Huh? Cheat? How, exactly, is crash sweeping a cheat? I have NEVER heard of it being dissalowed - the only exception would be games where using chaff is banned, and even then, it would only be an indirect consequence.

Errr, unless it was specifically pointed out in the rules, I would still use collision sweeping. I have done so in a no chaff game without breaking the rule. Simply build a scout/frigate with a cheap engine, and nothing else. Works fine, and is cheaper. As a matter of fact, I do this in the midgame to cut costs.

While I wholeheartedly agree that it is not in the best interests of anyone to go looking for rule loopholes, on this point I am firm. "Chaff sweeping" is mislabled. The definition of chaff that everyone agrees to incorprates a beam weapon. Therefore it is up to the host to either ban collision sweeping by name, or shutup when some uses it in a no chaff game.

Consider this a warning to hosts that don't go into rule specifics before the start of a game.

-Matt

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