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| Re: Mentorship |
Thu, 11 March 2004 06:35   |
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How about a "mentored beginners" game ?
Game is open to teams of 2; one must be a complete beginner (ie. never played against humans before). The other should be an experienced player. Only the beginner actually plays.
The beginner has to submit the race design and all turns, the mentor just giving them advice. If the beginner gives the race password to the expert then the team would be disqualified, though this would be hard to enforce.
Benefits for the beginners: they get a lot of experience very quickly.
Benefits for the experts: a new challenge - PBEM by proxy. The experts are effectively waging war on each other but without any direct control. Also, all the micro-management is done for them.
Maybe call the game "Power behind the throne" or something similar.
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| Re: Mentorship |
Thu, 11 March 2004 10:23 |
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Ashlyn's Beginner's Luck games involve the host offering advice on race design at the beginning of the game. And advice from the host during the game...
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| Re: Mentorship |
Thu, 11 March 2004 11:48 |
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 EDog |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 417
Registered: November 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA | |
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Actually, the Dueling Club is a great place to get some practical experience. I'm sure there are several members (myself included), that would be willing to "tutor" newbies in one-on-one settings. Obviously the setup is somewhat artificial, as the more experienced player is almost fighting against himself, with the aid of the newbie, but aren't we all our own worst enemies? Or something...
Any newbies wishing to learn more in a dueling environment should stop by the Dueling Club forum and let us know - someone will be happy to help you learn.
EDog
http://ianthealy.com
Born, grew up, became an adventurer
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| Re: Mentorship |
Fri, 12 March 2004 22:24 |
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| goober |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10 | |
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| SlaveOfSeven wrote on Thu, 11 March 2004 12:46 |
Agreed. I've learnt a lot in the small number of duels I've had so far. goober in particular has been very generous and helpful in offering tips and strategic and tactical advice. Obviously duels are somewhat different, but there's still plenty of stuff that beginners may not know that's applicable to larger games.
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Thanks SlaveOfSeven. But it makes a big difference that you were willing to learn and listen to advice. I'm looking forward to our next duel 
I remember my first PBEM. I formed an alliance with a more experienced player. He took me under his wing and taught me a great deal. Since then I've learned a great deal from my allies in general. Team games are very useful in this regard.
By the same token, I try to emulate the example set by my ally in my first game. If I come across a newbie I prefer to ally with them rather than take advantage of their inexperience. I'd rather they improve so that they feel inclined to play again and put up a decent fight if we are enemies when next we meet.
As to duels as a learning experience, they have their limitations as SoS says. But you do learn a lot very quickly. After a game I like to compare racefiles and discuss habitation, economic, LRT and research settings.
Overall, good alliances probably give the best learning opportunities. You can't do diplomacy in a duel! But Hyena, or anyone else out there, while I don't rate myself an expert more like good/strong (OK, maybe just very experienced)intermediate, I'd happy to have an "informal" duel (formal would be OK too) with you and pass on what I can either by comments during, discussion afterwards or both.
[Updated on: Fri, 12 March 2004 22:25]
Goober.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Mentorship, rough framework |
Wed, 17 March 2004 19:18 |
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So step one is to get a list of people willing to be mentors, and some sort of verification of their skill level.
Something on-line would be best, to list available mentors, but I know how much time programming can take.
Is there someone out there that has spare time enough to keep such a list?
My suggestions:
1) The Mentor volunteers to be on the list, and provides an approximate skill level.
2) 1-2 other people from the Forum verify the skill level of the Mentor.
3) The Mentor list is made available, including mentors taken or not available. The updated list is published when needed according to changes made.
4) Player contacts a mentor when needed. Mentor can decline of course.
5) If the mentor accepts the player, then the Mentor helps that player through one game. The Mentor can make suggestions, but never make actual changes in the Player's turns.
6) The Player makes it known in his game that he has a Mentor, especially if the Mentor has the player's password and can view the game.
Basic ideas for Skill levels:
- Game Designer / Messiah
- Expert: wins most games played, few knowledge gaps
- Advanced: known to be good, often finishes in high rank, has won many games
- Advanced Intermediate: has won multiple games
- Intermediate: has won one to two games
- Advanced Beginner: has finished in the top 3 in a game
- Beginner: had played 1 or more public games
- Newbie: has never played a public game
Note: winning can include alliance wins.
This is just VERY rough framework. A lot more detail can be filled in. More thoughts?
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| Re: Mentorship, rough framework |
Wed, 17 March 2004 22:50 |
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There was a theme game or at least attempt at one called "lonely at the top". Better players had to skip turns while newbies got to move every turn.
A similar system could be used as part of team games including newbies and more advanced players so that the newbies are given a bigger role and more advice.
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 Re: Mentorship, rough framework |
Wed, 17 March 2004 23:13 |
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| Hyena |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 109
Registered: January 2004 | |
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| Raindancer wrote on Wed, 17 March 2004 19:18 |
My suggestions:
1) The Mentor volunteers to be on the list, and provides an approximate skill level.
2) 1-2 other people from the Forum verify the skill level of the Mentor.
3) The Mentor list is made available, including mentors taken or not available. The updated list is published when needed according to changes made.
4) Player contacts a mentor when needed. Mentor can decline of course.
5) If the mentor accepts the player, then the Mentor helps that player through one game. The Mentor can make suggestions, but never make actual changes in the Player's turns.
6) The Player makes it known in his game that he has a Mentor, especially if the Mentor has the player's password and can view the game.
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I love it. If I may add a suggestion, all new games would have to list whether mentors are accepted or not. For instance, the beginner tournament should not have mentors in my opinion.
[Updated on: Wed, 17 March 2004 23:16] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Mentorship, rough framework |
Thu, 18 March 2004 02:27 |
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| multilis wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 16:50 |
There was a theme game or at least attempt at one called "lonely at the top". Better players had to skip turns while newbies got to move every turn.
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Tough at the Top. Unfortunately I got a whole 3 races submitted, so I canned it. Might possibly have been the diplomatic restrictions that killed it...dunno... I kinda threw them in at the last minute.
[Updated on: Thu, 18 March 2004 02:33] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Mentorship |
Thu, 18 March 2004 21:13 |
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| icebird |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 178
Registered: September 2003
Location: In LaLa land... | |
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| Crusader wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 11:23 |
Why, it was a mere couple of years back that you had to wait in line to get a game on AutoHost. Looks like the auditorium is about half-empty these days. 
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Yup, I remember that. I had to try four games  before I got into one- now, I got accepted into two, after to applying to the same number. I've tried, but my friends just arn't interested in a game if it doesn't have graphics that take up the whole hard drive, although I may have convinced one. Keep an eye out for anyone new with Warren or Gaspar in the name, or a location in New Mexico.
Anyways, I like the idea of the mentored beginners game- the beginners get to play every turn, while the mentors only play every other turn. I would play as a beginner in it myself, if I had more time. 
-Peter, Lord of the Big Furry ThingsReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Mentorship |
Fri, 19 March 2004 00:41 |
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Beginners can also use help on race design. One from my last game sent me an email, and I sent a reply today giving a start to suggestions for his design.
I didn't go into the more complex math or theory, I didn't want to overload with too much info (at least at once).
I am sort of a beginner myself (to stars but not to this type of strategy game) but I just won the first game I played including with players who had been around for quite a while, and I am a more focused and math orientated than some. I have spent a fair bit of time going over old forgotten (at least by some) strategies for stars hidden on the internet, plus trying to invent and test my own.
So I may be helpful for some pointers including (currently) unusual ideas.
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Then he is maybe worth the experienced players time.
