donjon wrote on Tue, 09 December 2003 16:30

Personally, I have a problem with Captain Maim's solution, A Death Star carrying an any/any gate offends the original design of the game.

I don't see how. In each cluster there is a any/any gate, what does it matter if it's on a fort, base, death star or whatever.

Quote:

The AR PRT is hacked and so unusable in play.

Really? I don't know how he does it but I can see how he would build de death stars + gate while the other races are in stasis, after the hack removed that the AR PRT turns to normal.
If that's not how it works and AR stays infected than it's not a good method of course ... maybe it doesn't work like that since I read something about "alien" parts disappearing ...

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The host race is totally ineffective. (which is a choice for the host, of course.) Personally I would like to see interaction with the Guild.

Ineffective how? He can play, he can build the ships, what else does he need to do? Gate minerals around? Let the races buy JG ships for that, I don't see that as a negative.

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I am willing to consider the idea of uploading mins to the race to the standing race at a gate, but would need to consider, how much and on what frequency. Mins are not totally useless to the host, he is and will chase the MT to get tech and toys.

About the salvage, the winner of the battle must be able to collect his price, salvage is a very important factor which I don't want to see removed (of course all races equal but still), most of my shining new war fleets have been made from scrap!

Of course you're the host and it's your game, you can make your own rules, that's one of the advantages of hosting, you get to play in the game you like. I'm in no way trying to tell you what to do!

mch

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sprocket wrote on Tue, 09 December 2003 19:10

PP and IT second hw's arent a problem: simply vacate the planet with the guild and either colonize manually a second planet in the home cluster or rule that they just dont get their second planet...easy as cake.

Hmmm, interesting concept...
assuming the PP/IT players don't mind variance in their second homeworld's min concs/and habitability value...(I could guarantee at least what they had (if possible!!!) Yes, I could allow PP/IT.

Err... it depends on the type of cake.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 December 2003 20:19]

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I would suggest this discussion should be moved to the Bar, or the Hosting Forum... Then I will place the new definition of the game here, so we can proceed.


regards,
les.

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donjon wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 16:18

I would suggest this discussion should be moved to the Bar, or the Hosting Forum... Then I will place the new definition of the game here, so we can proceed. regards, les.

Your word is my command!
Topic moved to the Bar.

mch

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LEit wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 10:19

First of all, I want to say that I think this is a good idea. I'm sorry I didn't mention that earlier.

LEit wrote:

1) the scout rush Now that every one knows about this, it's probably not as big an issue. One other thing you should to do help this is put all the Guild worlds a similar distance from the Home World in each cluster. Telling each player the location of the closest Guild world would also help them defend them better (however, it lets the rusher use them sooner, a bit of a double edged sword). Turning off the gates for a few turns would also really cripply the rush, but wouldn't be a big problem for most other races. Even 5 or 10 years would make a big difference for a rush.

You neglected to note that gate info will be only doled out one per year, since all races are starting at their normal min values, they are going to have to scrabble just to get that first 1000kt payment.

LEit wrote:

3) Buy JG ships for tech, scrap them for energy 16, prop 20, con 20, and elec 16, also take those 4 fields expensive for RW points, although AR might want to only take energy normal. And con expensive might be pushing it too. This is still an issue, however limiting it to LFs does delay it a bit till you can research con 8. So for that, and nubians it's probably a good idea to take con cheap.

Yes scrapping LF's is still an issue however 100 res + 86 mins + 200 flat... 386 mins cost, I'm sure that most will realize wholesale scrapping of the LF will be an expensive proposition.

LEit wrote:

4a) big fleets to guard gates 4c) a guarenteed HW in each cluster 4e) reduction of ARs biggest problem, defend one world well, and you've got a cluster covered There isn't much you can do to limit this.

I believe this is essential to the game.

LEit wrote:

4d) easy distribution within a cluster (small radius) Can't you just make the universe bigger? or is there an upper limit on size?

I assure you that I'm working with the largest universe which can be used in stars! When you take it to 25% view, you then scroll to get the other half of the universe (depending on resolution of your monitor of course)

LEit wrote:

Giving a few advantages to ARs isn't a bad thing IMO. I'm just trying to point them out and keep them from being overpowering. This concept doesn't solve one of ARs biggest problems: early mineral sortage. But if you can survive till late game, then ARs will have an advantage that will just grow over time. Of course with the proximity of worlds, fast growers will be really fast. AR is a risky race, and even more so when every one is your neighbor.

Perhaps you should play AR

LEit wrote:

Hmm, given the proximity and gates, IFE is probably not as important.

Unless you plan on intra-sector colonization without the use of JG's.

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donjon wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 12:26

You neglected to note that gate info will be only doled out one per year, since all races are starting at their normal min values, they are going to have to scrabble just to get that first 1000kt payment.

Why would anyone pay? Just find them by trial.

donjon wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 12:26

Yes scrapping LF's is still an issue however 100 res + 86 mins + 200 flat... 386 mins cost, I'm sure that most will realize wholesale scrapping of the LF will be an expensive proposition.

2k minerals for a tech level is somethat expensive, but probably not too unreasonable for most races. For an AR with a fountain up, it's a bargain.

donjon wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 12:26

Perhaps you should play AR

I probably would, but I just started a game myself. And I've got the FreeStars project I need to get back to.

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LEit wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 11:50

donjon wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 12:26 You neglected to note that gate info will be only doled out one per year, since all races are starting at their normal min values, they are going to have to scrabble just to get that first 1000kt payment. Why would anyone pay? Just find them by trial.

Sometimes I am totally thick-headed... you guys have been saying this since yesterday and I didn't understand. Changes have been effected in the game definition.

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I thought you were ruling IT out to cut down on competition with the Guild

Seriously, with an inf/inf gate network and relativly cheap jump gate ships available, there is little reason to play an IT, they're very expensive in the RW.

The other thing ITs get (gate scanning) might not be that valuable, given the compactness of the clusters, there is little reason for people to build their own gates, it will be easy enough to get to the nearest guild world, and go where you want. Not having a gate also makes using the Jump Gate ships easier.

Also, part of the concept of the game is to force combat at the gates, an IT bypasses that, so it kind of gets around the concept of the game.

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LEit wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 22:31

I thought you were ruling IT out to cut down on competition with the Guild The other thing ITs get (gate scanning) might not be that valuable, given the compactness of the clusters, there is little reason for people to build their own gates, it will be easy enough to get to the nearest guild world, and go where you want. Not having a gate also makes using the Jump Gate ships easier. .

if IT gets up longer range gates, they'll be able to scan every Guild world in each sector, potentially saving a lot of minerals that would be needed to purchase the locations. Although in the grand scheme of things 12000 kt may not be that much I suppose.

Regards,
Tim

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With all this free gating
maybe somebody will be brave and go HE!

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sprocket wrote on Thu, 11 December 2003 06:22

With all this free gating maybe somebody will be brave and go HE!

Where is Zoid?

mch

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LEit wrote on Wed, 10 December 2003 21:31

I thought you were ruling IT out to cut down on competition with the Guild Seriously, with an inf/inf gate network and relativly cheap jump gate ships available, there is little reason to play an IT, they're very expensive in the RW. The other thing ITs get (gate scanning) might not be that valuable, given the compactness of the clusters, there is little reason for people to build their own gates, it will be easy enough to get to the nearest guild world, and go where you want. Not having a gate also makes using the Jump Gate ships easier. Also, part of the concept of the game is to force combat at the gates, an IT bypasses that, so it kind of gets around the concept of the game.

No, competition with the Guild was not my concern. The other reason, other than the dual world start-up ends up being quick and cheap colonization intra-sector. It would be too much of an advantage over the non-IT races. Scanning is a bonus, and allows them to know the gateworld within their sector immediately, but that is only, most likely, a two-turn jump... but the ability to gate full colonizers is too much.

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[Updated on: Fri, 12 December 2003 02:43]

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