Home » General Chat » Circular File » External Poll: WWII
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Apology |
Wed, 24 September 2003 04:33 |
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zoid | | Ensign | Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002 Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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I'm absolutely notorious here for sticking my foot in my mouth.
I'm sorry about that post. I feel bad that I wrote something considered so obnoxious that it needs a warning label affixed to it. I'd even delete the post on the grounds that it's unnecessarily inflamatory, since this is a Stars oriented website and it has nothing at all to do with Stars, and isn't even on topic with the thread beginning. I don't mind if someone else, moderator or administrator wants to delete the post. The only reason I havn't deleted it is that I don't want to be cowardly. I opened my big fat mouth in the wrong place and I'm not going to try to dodge the repercussions of it now by deleting it. I'll let everyone see me for what I am, an opinionated guy who on occasion can be obnoxiously unwise about posting. It was very ill-considered to speak so strongly on such matters in a public forum where people don't know me.
I can't retract what I said. I can't say I didn't mean it. All I can say is that it wasn't meant as hostile as it apparently comes across and I was very unwise to assume such familiarity with everyone here. My views are often politically incorrect, but I can't apologize for that. Maybe everyone has some politically incorrect views, maybe not. Most who do are wiser than I and do not plaster them in inappropriate places.
I'm accustomed to such frank openness in my views with friends who know how to take me. I guess reading posts by the same people all the time gives me the false impression that we are all closer than we are, and that you'll react as my real acquaintances and friends do when they disagree with me. But you all don't know me well enough for me to be saying such things without causing concern, hurt, outrage, or all of the above and more. In conversation I can tell my liberal friends that liberals make me want to puke, they're idiots, etc and it's greeted with a laugh and a retort of like kind without hurt feelings, and believe it or not, that's all I foolishly expected the response would be, here.
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Thu, 25 September 2003 21:21 |
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zoid | | Ensign | Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002 Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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Ron wrote on Tue, 23 September 2003 19:59 |
zoid wrote on Tue, 23 September 2003 07:37 | Peace is what happens after you beat the snot out of the guy who hurts you. Once he can no longer fight, then you have peace. Never before. Strength and the judicious use of it makes peace. Mindless restraint and cowardly appeasement get you nowhere that you want to be.
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Hmmm... so how do you feel about Ghandi, and how his peaceful resistance led to India's independance from Britain? Or Martin Luther King Jr's peaceful resistance that helped lead to the end of racial segregation here in America?
IMO, War begets war and violence begets violence.
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I thought about whether or not I should continue this line of discussion several times since reading this post. Let's see if I can do this without being offensive.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Peaceful protest is a fine thing, as long as you're protesting the actions or policies of a benevolent society such as Britain, or the USA. I'm thinking neither one of these people would have gained any ground protesting in a totalitarian regime. Remember the tragedy of Tianemen(?) Square? Surely you see the difference. Theres a reason you can't summon the name of a successful, peaceful Iraqi protest movement. Because it doesn't work in the face of evil.
I have to confess I'm speaking rather blindly about Ghandi and Britain. The truth is I know nothing about Ghandi, to the point I don't even know when he lived. All I know is the name, and that he is well known to many for peaceful demonstration. I don't want to pretend to know more about it, when I know absolutely nothing. I'm guessing the leadership of Britain at that time would be considered generally benevolent without actually knowing, so correct me if I'm wrong. I'd just be very surprised to find that peaceful demonstrations ever had any effect on a tyranny government.
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I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Ummm, sure! I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Thu, 18 December 2003 21:41 |
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alexdstewart | | Chief Warrant Officer 2 | Messages: 164
Registered: July 2003 Location: Brisbane, QLD. | |
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I've been absent for a while so I didn't have the opportunity to contribute to this facinating debate.
I might be a godless, unethical and genocidal bastard who doesn't aknowledge existance of universal moral code and therefore of good and evil, but I still understand that violence solves only the simplest of problems. I also understand that force of arms is the ultimate base of power. I understand that most(all?) conflicts stem from population pressures and/or competition for res. Humankind was born to fight and will die fighting. The history itself, if you take away all the glamour is the chronology of bloodbaths.
In face of this the concept of good and evil is meaningless. In all wars there was were no "bad guys", because all wars were fought by the "good guys". I do not wish to force my opinion on people, just to state a few "facts", it can make you think and thats a good thing, since only thinking people can use their "freedon":
*Force is the ultimate base of power.
*Deception is a force multiplier.
*Most (all?) wars are over resourses and territory, often "justified" by by political and regilious ideological differences. (Otherwise why would USSR and China be enemies?)
*The notable "democracies" USA, England, Israel (IMO a disguised facist state) are all based on blood and genocide. Read history if you disagree (The history that is not written by the victor that is... might be hard to find...). I do not claim that other countries are much different.
*Israel was a "democracy" when it started its genocidal war against Palestinian people. And yes, Palestinians ARE Palestinians, read the bible to find why nobody calls the "promised land" for what it trully is - PALESTINE.
*A democracy bend on agressive war is every bit as bad as a dictatorship bend on doing the same.
*The Nazi party were not all right wing fanatics, although they were certainly right wing . Just think of that zoid, what company are you sharin
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In the Future there is only WAR...
Therefore our extinction is assured, it is just a matter of where and when.Report message to a moderator
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Sat, 20 December 2003 23:34 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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I wanted to answer this entire post but there is just too much garbage to make it worthwhile to respond to all the ignorance and misinformation you printed.
So with regard to my fellow Americans and friends of ours I will cut to the part where you call us various things such as stupid, arrogant, hypocritical. etc. Oh yeah you say these were not your words, but you thought them worthy to print here anyways. On this American website where you participate in games with Americans likely on a computer run by American operating system with hardware much of which was developed by American companies.
This also is a gross misrepreesentation of facts and any decent hearted honest person in this world who looks at the whole truth should know better. Be careful what you read and where you read it, there is much anti-Ameican propaganda everywhere solely for the purpose of trying to diminish America for various evil reasons in themselves.
My fellow Americans you have much to be proud of as an American. Think what the world might be like today if it hadn't been for the existence of America in the past. Here are a few reasons that someone who moved to this country had to say about America.
My fellow Americans when someone asks you what America has done, tell them. Then ask them what they have done by comparison.
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I would like to take a moment to explain why many people in the world do not deserve what America has done for the world. Having lived more than half of my life in these United States, I have come to the realization that there is no other country in the world that compares to America in any way. Here are my thoughts and why:
1.) Human Rights Champion. The United States is one of the most prominent champions of human rights, not only within the U.S., but also throughout the world.
2.) Land Of Opportunity For All Religions, Races And Minorities, Including Women. Few other countries in the world even come close when it comes to providing equal opportunity for its citizens, regardless of relig
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[Updated on: Sat, 20 December 2003 23:41] Report message to a moderator
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Sun, 21 December 2003 00:09 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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overworked wrote on Sat, 20 December 2003 22:41 | Curious question. Where in the U.S. is this Republic of Texas that you post from?
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Texas was a country, the republic of Texas, before it became a state. Texas yielded its ambitions and gave the rest of the country to the others out of compassion. We instead kept the biggest part for ourselves and joined the union to pacify the others, otherwise they would all be nervous about our presence. Just like many are nervous about America because of its presence. To this day many are still nervous about Texas as they like to comment and joke much about our great state. We used to be the largest state, and if some of that damn snow and ice would melt in Alaska we will be again.
So we are no longer the republic of Texas but a part of the republic of the United States.
Because of the size of our state Texans used to joke and brag about everything in Texas is bigger.
For example: A man from Kentucky was talking with a Texas oilman and he bragged about his state. He told the Texan: "We have enough gold in Fort Knox to build a gold fence around Texas"
The Texan scratched his head and said: "Well, son, you go ahead and build that fence, and if we like it, we'll buy it"
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Sun, 21 December 2003 03:10 |
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Much as I love a good political argument I've not commented on much of this thread for the simple fact that I couldn't be bothered. There's just too much to comment on...and my own political beliefs are either way ahead of their time or just too radical. Or both.
However I do like to throw bones in the pit and watch the beasts have at it. So...
One thing I've always wondered is:
What would happen if the individual states that make up the US of A were given the right to withdraw from the union and become independant states?
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Mon, 22 December 2003 01:10 |
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alexdstewart | | Chief Warrant Officer 2 | Messages: 164
Registered: July 2003 Location: Brisbane, QLD. | |
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Hey, it appears that zoid is not the only one with the habbit of sticking his foot in peoples' mouths...
I lived in many countries under most regimes. After that experience I can agree that living in European capitalism is probaly the best, with American Capitalism being close second.
I call it "capitalism" because it just isn't democracy- only ancient greeks had "democracy"- I can concede you calling it "republic" or "oligarchy" but difference between "democracy" and "US democracy" is simular to difference between "communism" and "socialism" (despite the comi boogie man, there was never any "communist" gov in the world... like ever)
I make no secret that I HATE the American GOVERMENT, not the people (I am too smart to assume that all Americans are stupid, arrogant etc...). And THAT is only for ONE REASON and ONE REASON ONLY:
USA makes up HALF of the world's military budget and that it spends it on AGRESSIVE WAR. Since US controls 25% of worlds economy, one question begs to be answered- what's your TAX rate? Who threatens you so much that you have to have 1million+ army of MERCINARY SOLDIERS? Surely not Mexico, or Canada?
Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the American Dream Idea (though I get disellusioned as time passes by). But WHY IN THE WORLD would you want to invade other countries, even former allies- which Iraq certainly is? I know the answer- to exploit the resources to satisfy ever growing demand for econ growth. The US isn't the first and won't be the last to do so. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with the effects it has on human development however.
I am all pro OWGov policy, exterminating dictators and bombing democracy into the World and all that rot, as long as it HELPS the HUMAN DEVELOPMENT on this planet. BUT IMO USA STAGNATES the world.
I've seen countries robbed of their independance by the "gifts" from the American Gov, the loans hav
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[Updated on: Mon, 22 December 2003 01:12]
In the Future there is only WAR...
Therefore our extinction is assured, it is just a matter of where and when.Report message to a moderator
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Mon, 22 December 2003 01:51 |
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alexdstewart | | Chief Warrant Officer 2 | Messages: 164
Registered: July 2003 Location: Brisbane, QLD. | |
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BlueTurbit wrote on Sat, 20 December 2003 23:34 | I wanted to answer this entire post but there is just too much garbage to make it worthwhile to respond to all the ignorance and misinformation you printed.
I:
I would like to take a moment to explain why many people in the world do not deserve what America has done for the world.
1.) Human Rights Champion. The United States is one of the most prominent champions of human rights, not only within the U.S., but also throughout the world.
3.) America Is Always A Trusted Ally.
4.) America Is A Superpower With Empathy.
6.) The United States Is A Global Leader In Technology And Innovation.
7.) The United States Is Also A World Leader In Foreign Aid.
8.) The United States Is A Leader In Finance For The Rest Of The World. Through the establishment of the World Bank, the U.S. has also championed the provision of trillions of dollars annually in financial support and loans to needy countries.
for the entire article: http://www.tmcnet.com/cis/1101/1101po.htm
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Well, that's a FIRST time someone called me IGNORANT in my LIFETIME.(What have I done to deserve 'tis?)
I: I totally agree with you on that one- NONE of the 50 countries United States has invaded since WWII DESERVED IT.
1) You need to look no futher than Guantanamo Bay Cuba and Death Sentence for that one...
3) I am SURE that Saddam Hussein of Iraq, chinise rebels, gassed Kurds and Osama Bin Laden will agree with you... I mean 100%
4) Agent Orange, Fat Boy, Hollow point bullets, flechettes, cluster bombs AND DU shells speak for themselves, for those who care to listen
6) I got to agree- American smart bombs hit exacly where they fall... and "precision carpet bombing" is quite cool too.
7) I think that I adressed the question of decapitating loans somewhere before...
So far the experince shows that only countries that stay as far away from the "World Bank" as possible prosper. Cuba is still a prosperous dictatorship, while Brasil/Mexico are very much in deep... aghem,
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In the Future there is only WAR...
Therefore our extinction is assured, it is just a matter of where and when.Report message to a moderator
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Mon, 22 December 2003 06:38 |
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Is it possible to mark a thread as "ignored" so that it doesn't show up with a yellow lightbulb all the time ?
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Re: External Poll: WWII |
Mon, 22 December 2003 19:12 |
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zoid | | Ensign | Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002 Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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Alexdstewart, that was the funniest and most twisted diatribe I have ever heard! Man, this thread is like the Twilight Zone! (Dee nee nee nee, dee nee nee nee...) I actually DID bust a gut laughing.
Look, there's nothing anyone can say or do that is going to change your perspective. NOTHING - so while all the words ring false to me, I'm not going to debate any of it.
I only want to point out one commonality I've noticed in all of these political discussions of late - Everyone who begins with "I don't believe in God, good and evil, black and white, etc, shares the same twisted perspective about the United States and make similar irrational and venemous statements about EVERYTHING the US does. Because they do not believe in good or evil, black or white, etc, they make some rather interesting arguments diametrically opposed to what seems an obvious truth to me, like equating George Bush Jr with Adolf Hitler. How can anyone say George Bush Jr is the most dangerous man who ever lived, except Adolf Hitler was smarter? The moral equivalence of the two men (along with the intellectual comparison) I just can't see. Good is bad, black is white, up is down, inside is out - the logic is very perverse and the only clarity is the unflagging hatred these people have for the U.S. My main point is that in almost every case, when someone says "I don't believe in God, good and evil, black and white, etc...", the theme "America sucks" follows. Anyone else notice that?
I'm agnostic, but even without God I still believe in good and evil, and that sometimes things ARE indeed as black and white as they appear to be. The Bible says the beginning of wisdom is to fear God. Well, I dunno about that, but the more arguments I hear beginning with "I don't believe in God, good and evil, black or white" leads me to believe that the beginning of wisdom ARE these things, because wisdom and clarity are so commonly hard to find in the words of those who deny these concepts.
BTW, everyone wh
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I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Ummm, sure! I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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