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Re: Known Cheats Thu, 17 April 2014 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
XAPBob wrote on Thu, 17 April 2014 12:11
no mixed fleets, no fleets with more than one ship (since that reduces per ship damage)

I have yet to see any statistics showing such drastic measures are needed. Sherlock


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Oh, and no ISB - or IT can't use two specific gates

Wasn't the general consensus that ISB vs IT wasn't a true cheat? Unavoidable, unexploitable, and so far devoid of any statistics showing how much IT races are weakened by it? Lurking


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No more than one SD in any given game?

Another one that doesn't seem to be a very pressing concern. Probably because whenever some1 has tried to exploit it, some Host has stomped them flat. Rolling Eyes

Though probably the "Standard Disclaimer" can be improved, it's only a minimum list that most Hosts seem willing and able to adapt when needed. "Everything else is banned" leaves enough leeway for reasonable compromises and penalties. Hit over head


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This whole discussion came about because I spotted a couple of things that "looked wrong" in the current standard disclaimer

Specifically allowing a particular exploit, as some people want, would seem even more wrong. Shame


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There are two ways to make a typical destroyer survive a minehit:
- Stack 5 (or more) of them
- Add a single chaff in a lower slot number

The first of those is considered a legitimate tactic, exploiting the difference between mindamage(fleet) and mindamage(ship).

Yep. The helpfile's clarity in spelling out the differences seems to invite players to use bigger fleets. Twisted Evil

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The second is not, exploiting the allocation of damage in a mixed fleet to "dodge" the damage at vastly reduced cost when compared with the first.

Neither the game's rules nor the helpfile explain or even hint anywhere that something as secondary as Design ID can confer "magical" anti-mine abilities. Whip


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Both rely on knowledge of the damage algorithms, as does missile chaff - and a whole host of other tactics (maximising pop growth, IS colonist shipping, calculating packet sizes etc...) rely on knowledge of the, often empirically derived, algorithms behind the game.

All these other tactics were known long enough ago that the game's own creators were able to answer any doubts about them. Work at computer


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The original question I had wasn't even about the dodge - it was about allocation.

I see the two as only different in scale and potential harm caused. So the easier solution naturally presents itself: look for the benefits! Poke


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Allocation is built into the Stars! engine, it can't be changed without banning mixed fleets (or minefields Twisted Evil).

Does it need to be changed? Where are all the games and players hurt by its not-so-prevalent triggering over the years? Fire bounce


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What can be done is that ships designs can be coordinated (usually) so that they aren't making the minefield explode onto nothing.

As a partial solution, why not. Anything that simplifies the umpire's work is good. But it's not a complete foolproof solution. Hit Computer


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For "allocation" we are merely controlling (to a limited extent) how that mindamage(fleet) is distributed over multiple designs - conditional on the mindamage(fleet) still being allocated somewhere.

I assert that doing so is not a cheat - the damage is taken - for a numerical case study see Lowtek.

A fascinating read! Seems I'm not alone in considering benefits as the main deciding point in each case. Cool


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Noone expects that the damage dodge be routinely allowed

Some people not far from here sure do. They're pushing as hard as they can to get it legitimately added to their regular toolbox. In some games and with some Hosts they have succeeded. Evil or Very Mad


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but allocation is a game mechanic that cannot be reasonably avoided.

And again I repeat my main doubt: how does it affect normal games when it's not being actively exploited? It cannot be a lot, or many more people would have noticed it and complained about it before. Confused
...




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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