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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » "Anti-Monster" game settings (How to even the playing field in game setup)
Re: "Anti-Monster" game settings Tue, 29 October 2013 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
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Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
Tomasoid wrote on Sun, 20 October 2013 08:54
(...a lot of really good thoughts about JOATs and luck...)


Tomasoid, that was a lot of meaty stuff and I've been letting my brain chew on it for a while.

I think your JOAT argument is based on these two premises:

1) JOAT is usually handicapped by the game rules; let's assume JOAT sacrifices a bit of hab to meet the handicap.
2) JOAT, with his higher pop cap, therefore acheives the same economy with slightly fewer planets than non-JOAT race with similar econ settings.

We must recognize that #1 is not a guarantee. Maybe I would rather sacrifice PGR, take more expensive tech, and/or uncheck the g box. But for comparison purposes, I'm fine with a discussion based on premise #1.

I can agree with #2, given #1. A JOAT with somewhat tighter habs gets same economy as non-JOAT with somewhat wider habs.

You argue that point #2 means JOATS can consolidate newer space more efficiently. That's an interesting point.
  • The non-JOAT has to build a few more colonizers and freighters, since he has to take over a few more planets than the JOAT does. But that's a pretty small cost in the overall picture.
  • The non-JOAT has to spend a few more years bombing out abandoned planets. Okay, yes, that's a pretty good point. Moving the bombing fleet around takes the non-JOAT a few more years, so the JOAT benefits from his gains more quickly than the non-JOAT.

You argue that good luck with hab values of border planets benefits a JOAT more, essentially because the JOAT has more capacity and therefore more total pop growth per planet.
  • I agree, but I don't think this advantage is restricted to border planets. If we accept premise #1, that the JOAT has tighter habs, then finding a good breeder is already more beneficial than for the non-JOAT, even though it is just as likely to occur.
  • If the JOAT is 45 wide in all 3 habs, and the non-JOAT is 50 wide in all 3 habs, and both are centered the same, a great planet (+-5 clicks from center in all 3 habs) for one race is also a great planet for the other.

So, okay. If a JOAT pays for his race handicap by narrowing habs, then luck plays more of a role than for a non-JOAT with similar econ settings.

But isn't this true for any race that narrows habs? Why is this more true for JOATs than for other races?

Having narrow habs puts you at the mercy of the planet draw moreso than does having wide habs.
Consider a race with centered habs 21 clicks wide.
  • 1 in 93 planets will be habitable according to the RW.
  • If you find a great planet (+-5 clicks from center) close to your HW, you have exceeded your average expectation by an enormous amount. You weren't even expecting to find one habitable planet within 3 hops, and here you have a great one. Extraordinary luck!
  • Now you can export pop when you hit 25% on your HW, and pretty soon you'll have twice the pop growth and twice the resources and minerals than you were expecting to have with average luck.

If you were a wide-hab race (let's say centered habs 71 clicks wide), finding a great planet next to your HW is still pretty darned nice. After all, +-5 clicks in all 3 habs is 1-in-500+ planets, no matter how wide your habs are. But you were expecting to find plenty of green planets nearby anyway. Finding this one great planet doesn't mean you will have twice the pop growth, resources, and minerals as you were expecting with average luck. Maybe 10% more. Maybe 20% more. But not 100% more.

Planets mean more to a JOAT than a non-JOAT, because planets are a JOATs primary strength. Therefore the luck of the planet draw affects JOATs more than non-JOATs. That's an argument I can agree with, but I think it's an academic argument. Everyone needs planets. It is hard to argue that a JOAT needs them more. If a JOAT gets lucky and ends up with an extra planet, the JOAT can do more with it than a non-JOAT, but again: that's the primary strength of a JOAT. The non-JOAT has some other ability that we aren't talking about. The JOAT should look good if all we talk about is planets and econ.

(nex
...




What we need's a few good taters.

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