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Re: Defeating the factoryless race

Sat, 07 February 2009 13:50

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

magic9mushroom wrote on Sat, 07 February 2009 16:53

Firstly, I'd like to make it clear that I'm getting rather sick of the oppressive atmosphere developing in this thread.

Not my intention. I'm just trying to save you from some dangerous misconceptions and possibly even some defeats. Sad

Quote:

"JoaT hybrid will be building up breeders while HE is still waiting to move"

- Categorically false. A 6% HE leaves homeworld at turn 5, a 19-20% JoaT at turn 6, and a 5% HE or 17-18% JoaT at turn 7. The JoaT will not be ahead in getting a second planet.

I didn't say a second planet. I said "breeder". Your magical HE might have 15 puny colonies with 3000 pop each before a decent JoaT starts cranking its 1st breeder, but since you seem to equate both situations I'll conclude you don't have a solid grasp of the basics of pop management and direct you to read the FAQs or any fine article by Jason Cawley before wasting more of my time. Deal

Quote:

"JoaT planets will reach 80% much faster than HE"

- Um, how? On a planet with less than 66% hab, they won't, because their pop grows slower. Even on a planet with higher hab, the HE has much less pop to grow to get there. I must confess that I'm not really sure what your point is here, though.

Usually by getting enough good greens (better than 50%) to easily outgrow your 6% HE. Which needs good scanning. Which JoaTs excel at.

Well, perhaps against a very unlucky hab draw they wouldn't, but that's what terraforming is for. For non-immune races hab actually increases with time.

Anyway, my point was that speed matters, too, and your HE won't be the 1st to reach its maturity and combat readiness, by a long shot. 2 Guns

Quote:

Remember that you're talking about Hybrid JoaTs and I said "slightly slower than **HG** JoaTs". Besides which, we're talking about a long game anyway.

And the point I'm trying to get across is that an Hybrid gets almost as much speed as a pure HG, while sacrificing some endgame capacity which is almost always better than that of any HE anyway.

By the way, remember mentioning the huge mineral stockpiles an HE is likely to build up? Sorry, but with your mines they won't. At least not what I would call "huge"

Quote:

"[snip Hybrid description and claim that they'll outgrow any HE]"

- Um, no? 12% growth tri-immune > 17% non-immune.

Perhaps in your testbeds. Certainly not in mine. Sherlock

Quote:

"Other races than AR can evacuate their planets too"

- Um, did you read what I posted? It takes an AR 3 years to rebuild a Death Star and hence full capabilities given pop and 400 kT of every mineral. It takes a HG JoaT 10 years to rebuild a planet given pop and 6500 kT of Germ. An HP JoaT takes 15 years to rebuild a planet given pop and 10000 kT of Germ.

You said "from scratch". That's definitely not "from scratch". If you posit that an AR can evacuate all pop and minerals it may need for rebuilding, I'm free to posit that other races can evacuate all pop and minerals they need too.

Plus, you show again your weak grasp on the basics of war, so I'll again recommend you read the Strategy Guide or play more games before wasting any more of my time.

Quote:

The AR will have all of what I listed, while the JoaTs may not. Regardless of that, it still means that the AR's bombing does much more damage to the JoaT's econ than the other way around.

In theory, yes. In practice, not so much. Unless the JoaT has no idea of how to avoid it. Which hasn't been the case in the games I've played. Twisted Evil

...

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So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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[Message index]

		Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 17:17
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 17:26
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 29 January 2009 20:47
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 23:25
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 30 January 2009 00:54
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: joseph on Fri, 30 January 2009 05:04
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Sully on Sat, 31 January 2009 16:08
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Sat, 31 January 2009 20:18
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Sun, 01 February 2009 01:33
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sun, 01 February 2009 04:52
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Sun, 01 February 2009 11:44
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 03 February 2009 13:39
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Tue, 03 February 2009 14:09
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 03 February 2009 17:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Tue, 03 February 2009 21:34
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Wed, 04 February 2009 15:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 05 February 2009 05:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 05 February 2009 07:06
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Thu, 05 February 2009 10:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 05:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Fri, 06 February 2009 05:54
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 06:07
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:17
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:22
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:48
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 08:14
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 09:10
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Fri, 06 February 2009 13:01
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: joseph on Fri, 06 February 2009 18:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 04:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 18:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 05:49
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sat, 07 February 2009 10:53
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 13:50
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: vonKreedon on Sat, 07 February 2009 14:11
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Sun, 08 February 2009 16:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Sun, 08 February 2009 23:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 14:22
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Sat, 07 February 2009 15:19
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Tue, 10 February 2009 15:06
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: swp1 on Tue, 10 February 2009 20:18
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Wed, 11 February 2009 02:56
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 05:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:24
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 12:32
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:40
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 19:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Thu, 12 February 2009 03:12
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 12 February 2009 04:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Thu, 12 February 2009 05:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Micha on Thu, 12 February 2009 07:53
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Thu, 02 April 2009 03:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: gible on Thu, 02 April 2009 05:04
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sat, 14 February 2009 13:35
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sat, 14 February 2009 13:32
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sun, 01 February 2009 05:02
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: ArtL on Tue, 03 February 2009 23:31
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Combat on Sat, 07 February 2009 11:25
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Mon, 09 February 2009 03:10
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: vonKreedon on Mon, 09 February 2009 15:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:45
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Tue, 24 March 2009 15:14
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Thu, 26 March 2009 15:12
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 27 March 2009 11:42
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Fri, 27 March 2009 14:40
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 28 March 2009 06:30
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sun, 29 March 2009 07:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Sat, 28 March 2009 17:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: pydna on Thu, 02 April 2009 01:41
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Thu, 02 April 2009 13:03
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 02 April 2009 14:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Eagle of Fire on Thu, 02 April 2009 13:35
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: pydna on Thu, 02 April 2009 21:24

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