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Re: Defeating the factoryless race

Sat, 07 February 2009 05:49

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 06 February 2009 15:10

Hey, look, I know I suck, but that doesn't make the theory wrong. Smile

Wrong. You're going against both theory and practice. And now you're saying you have no actual proof. Shame

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Are you quite sure of that?

In fact, I got some practice at it. Twisted Evil

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Let's stick together some sort of 6% 3i HE. You'll be able to get 10+% achieved growth easily, that's in the ballpark of most HG JoaTs. And capacity should be better given the 100% hab with 100% value on all planets. So what matters is economy. I won't take NAS just to be nice.

Speed matters too. Average HG/HP hybrid starts with plenty of tech advantage, and is already beefing up at least one breeder while the HE is still waiting to have enough pop to move.

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Full planet size is 1980, compared to the average HG JoaT's 3854, but tri-imm means that you've got twice as many planets, at least, with twice as good hab on average, to make it up twice over. And this isn't even mentioning the huge mineral stockpiles a race like this will build up.

Again, that would be more a long term situation. Before that, JoaT planets reached 80% pop a lot faster than the HE (remember, 240% bigger planets mean crowding starts *much* later) and with gates everywhere mobility is way greater than the HE's.

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Overall conclusion: slightly behind a HG JoaT in pop growth early, makes it up later in capacity.

While the JoaT (and everybody else) sleeps? Sleeping

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I'm not entirely sure what sort of settings a hybrid takes, I don't really know how to build one. But I'll point out that a 5% HE gets better factories and hence capacity with around the same achieved pop growth.

Just a quick design: 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 planets, 17 or 18% PGR, slightly worse factories and mines than your HE, more expensive techs. Takes more MM to run, but grows faster than any HE. Twisted Evil

Here you can read some old thread about the same issues.

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Problem with AR is that with their mineral fountain, and Death Stars growing pop, you really can't kill them permanently unless you can occupy almost all of their space simultaneously,

That's what "conquest" generally means. Rolling Eyes

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because it takes an AR literally 3-4 years to rebuild a base from scratch, no more,

If "from scratch" means after evacuating all pop and minerals, then it's not "from scratch". And other races can evacuate their planets, too. Sneaky

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A JoaT can't really do that and make it work in a large/huge uni.

Nor has the need. And, unlike IS overpop, JoaT pop runs mines and factories. Deal

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Not so sure about that, but you may be right. This is admittedly shaky ground since I don't play IT.

We aren't analyzing IT here. Play JoaT. Nothing has bigger planets. What other races do is try to compensate their smaller planets with better speed, tech or toys.

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Again, my lack of game experience means I can't really say anything on this one.

The AIs don't use gates. You need to play people to learn all the nuances.

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Can it? I doubt it. The JoaT's main strength is econ growth and capacity using its +20% planet size.

Which makes the JoaT the prime candidate to face a strong CA econ. Cool

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Growth wise CA > JoaT, no contest. To keep up with a CA in terms of capacity they have to do years of terraforming,

Actually, JoaT starts to ramp-up earlier than CA. It's CA who has to catch-up thanks to their insta-forming.

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all of which of course goes out the window as soon as the OAs pop up, in fact the planet will probably be unusable for 30 years if the CA uses enough. So no.

And, what makes you think these OAs will reach orbit without a fight? 2 Guns

...

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So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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[Message index]

		Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 17:17
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 17:26
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 29 January 2009 20:47
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 23:25
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 30 January 2009 00:54
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: joseph on Fri, 30 January 2009 05:04
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Sully on Sat, 31 January 2009 16:08
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Sat, 31 January 2009 20:18
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Sun, 01 February 2009 01:33
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sun, 01 February 2009 04:52
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Sun, 01 February 2009 11:44
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 03 February 2009 13:39
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Tue, 03 February 2009 14:09
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 03 February 2009 17:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Tue, 03 February 2009 21:34
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Wed, 04 February 2009 15:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 05 February 2009 05:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 05 February 2009 07:06
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Thu, 05 February 2009 10:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 05:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Fri, 06 February 2009 05:54
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 06:07
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:17
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:22
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:48
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 08:14
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 09:10
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Fri, 06 February 2009 13:01
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: joseph on Fri, 06 February 2009 18:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 04:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 18:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 05:49
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sat, 07 February 2009 10:53
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 13:50
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: vonKreedon on Sat, 07 February 2009 14:11
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Sun, 08 February 2009 16:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Sun, 08 February 2009 23:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 14:22
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Sat, 07 February 2009 15:19
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Tue, 10 February 2009 15:06
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: swp1 on Tue, 10 February 2009 20:18
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Wed, 11 February 2009 02:56
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 05:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:24
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 12:32
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:40
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 19:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Thu, 12 February 2009 03:12
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 12 February 2009 04:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Thu, 12 February 2009 05:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Micha on Thu, 12 February 2009 07:53
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Thu, 02 April 2009 03:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: gible on Thu, 02 April 2009 05:04
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sat, 14 February 2009 13:35
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sat, 14 February 2009 13:32
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sun, 01 February 2009 05:02
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: ArtL on Tue, 03 February 2009 23:31
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Combat on Sat, 07 February 2009 11:25
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Mon, 09 February 2009 03:10
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: vonKreedon on Mon, 09 February 2009 15:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:45
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Tue, 24 March 2009 15:14
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Thu, 26 March 2009 15:12
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 27 March 2009 11:42
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Fri, 27 March 2009 14:40
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 28 March 2009 06:30
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sun, 29 March 2009 07:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Sat, 28 March 2009 17:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: pydna on Thu, 02 April 2009 01:41
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Thu, 02 April 2009 13:03
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 02 April 2009 14:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Eagle of Fire on Thu, 02 April 2009 13:35
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: pydna on Thu, 02 April 2009 21:24

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