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Re: Defeating the factoryless race

Tue, 03 February 2009 21:34

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1364
Registered: May 2008

I must respectfully disagree.

mlaub wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 06:09

[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 12:39] and they seem to thrive poorly in decent-sized playgrounds. Twisted Evil

That would not be a true statement. -f can do just fine in the larger universes. They do have some issues in the larger universes, but usually not until nubs are out, and nothing that can't be overcome with planning or MM.

One such issue is sheer size. You need to be ~3x a normal race, but this is a 2 edged sword. It is a impediment to ship building via fleet limit, but you get the flexibility of cheap infrastructure and truly sacrificial planets. Plus you get many more minerals.

This seems to raise an obvious point. How are you going to get that big? Sure, a -f 3x the size of a +f can compete. But they won't be that, because +f races don't expand much slower than a -f under near-ideal conditions, which "decent-sized playgrounds" are. Say 1.5, okay? Then the +f has 2x the -f's resources, and 2/3 of the minerals. Sounds better to me...

Basically, because there's more room, the +f races will get the time to develop that's usually denied them, thus denying the -f races their tech advantage.

Quote:

I would hazard a guess that your conclusion of poor -f performance in the larger universes is directly proportional to the players tolerance for MM. At least in the players that you have observed.

MM can't solve all the problems. Larger universes really don't like early-bloomer races. That's all there really is to it.

Quote:

I'd go so far to say that larger universes are actually easier for -f IS and IT, IMO.

-Matt

-f IS, I agree. Because they can overpop planets, a -f IS can actually get res/space competitive with +f races. Their overpop and orgies really come into their own in a long game like that.

IT, I don't. Sure, large uni advantages IT. It doesn't advantage -f IT relative to +f IT though.

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[Message index]

		Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 17:17
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 17:26
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 29 January 2009 20:47
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Thu, 29 January 2009 23:25
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 30 January 2009 00:54
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: joseph on Fri, 30 January 2009 05:04
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Sully on Sat, 31 January 2009 16:08
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Sat, 31 January 2009 20:18
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Sun, 01 February 2009 01:33
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sun, 01 February 2009 04:52
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Sun, 01 February 2009 11:44
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 03 February 2009 13:39
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Tue, 03 February 2009 14:09
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 03 February 2009 17:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Tue, 03 February 2009 21:34
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Wed, 04 February 2009 15:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 05 February 2009 05:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 05 February 2009 07:06
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Thu, 05 February 2009 10:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 05:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Fri, 06 February 2009 05:54
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 06:07
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:17
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:22
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 07:48
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Fri, 06 February 2009 08:14
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 09:10
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Fri, 06 February 2009 13:01
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: joseph on Fri, 06 February 2009 18:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 04:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 06 February 2009 18:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 05:49
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sat, 07 February 2009 10:53
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 13:50
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: vonKreedon on Sat, 07 February 2009 14:11
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Sun, 08 February 2009 16:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Sun, 08 February 2009 23:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 07 February 2009 14:22
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: mlaub on Sat, 07 February 2009 15:19
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Tue, 10 February 2009 15:06
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:20
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: swp1 on Tue, 10 February 2009 20:18
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Wed, 11 February 2009 02:56
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 05:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: johng316 on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:24
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 12:32
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:28
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:40
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Wed, 11 February 2009 19:43
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Thu, 12 February 2009 03:12
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 12 February 2009 04:05
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: iztok on Thu, 12 February 2009 05:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Micha on Thu, 12 February 2009 07:53
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Thu, 02 April 2009 03:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: gible on Thu, 02 April 2009 05:04
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sat, 14 February 2009 13:35
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Alter Ego on Sat, 14 February 2009 13:32
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sun, 01 February 2009 05:02
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: ArtL on Tue, 03 February 2009 23:31
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Combat on Sat, 07 February 2009 11:25
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Mon, 09 February 2009 03:10
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: vonKreedon on Mon, 09 February 2009 15:13
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: neilhoward on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:45
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Tue, 24 March 2009 15:14
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Thu, 26 March 2009 15:12
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 27 March 2009 11:42
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Fri, 27 March 2009 14:40
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Sat, 28 March 2009 06:30
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: magic9mushroom on Sun, 29 March 2009 07:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: DaYng1 on Sat, 28 March 2009 17:16
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: pydna on Thu, 02 April 2009 01:41
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Altruist on Thu, 02 April 2009 13:03
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: m.a@stars on Thu, 02 April 2009 14:29
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: Eagle of Fire on Thu, 02 April 2009 13:35
		Re: Defeating the factoryless race By: pydna on Thu, 02 April 2009 21:24

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