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Re: Nubians with BET? Tue, 07 March 2006 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
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Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA
wizard wrote on Tue, 07 March 2006 07:37

Hello again,
Dreadnoughts with Ini 40. IMO, those are nearly impossible to counter without Nubians


Are the init 40 ships beamers? or missile boats? I'm hoping beamers, cause if that is the case, you have won. He will run out of G more quickly then you will run out of Nubs to counter them.

If they are missile boats, here is another "Matt Logic" for ya. The enemy is going Init war to the extreme. So, don't bother with high init on your missile ships. In fact, shoot last! Everyone always argues with me on this one. So, everyone who feels I am wrong about shooting last, stop reading now. Nothing to see here, bad advice forthcoming...stay smug knowing you are superior. Twisted Evil

Scroll down to read Matt Logic. Missiles: "Firing first, by firing last".












Ok, here is the deal. With a normal factoried race, and especially with BET, my guess is that germ is gonna be in short supply if you push init, Nub hull G cost is more than normal. So, making a high init Nub is simply suicide. You won't have enough G, and you won't be able to build out the rest of your metal with truly efficient designs. That being said, why is shooting last so bad? Shooting last can be a good thing, if it means your shot actually matters, doesn't hit chaff.

1. WM chaff moves to fast.

You can build chaff killers that fire before his missile ships fairly easily. They kill his chaff on round 1, and I believe you can use the Big Mutha. As long as it fires first, the chaff dies. No way to stop it, unless it moves off to the side. Since it won't matter, split them up to avoid that problem.

Engine
1 OT
4 Nexus
5 BM
2 Flux

2. Counter chaff killers and High Init

He can't play the same trick on you as above. Your normal chaff should only move 1 space, and that means r3 beamers for Anti chaff ships. Check your designs. Make sure you have something that is more attactive to beams than your chaff, as a buffer. Maybe your mainline ships will do the trick.

3. Sapper armed ships.

This ties to the next point. Normally, I'd say forget it... but here's the dealio. He doesn't have Nubs. BB's and Dreads can't have enough BD's. So, sapper ships can really hurt if you take the shields down before the missiles fire in the first turn. This is only a stop gap ship if your mainline beam nub BM's won't be enough. Sappers are low bora so it is not targeted if you do take out the shields. That means they are reusable. Max the sappers, and flux, you may not even need shields.

4. Your missile ships

This is the real trick. Make sure your missile ships fire *after* the BM's on the main line Nubs. Your main line nubs should have a init of 15 on the BM's. Your missile ships should have 1 stack Nexii and Arms. That's an init of 14. For those who say 87% is not good enough for missile comps, laugh at them and build 10% more missile ships with your germ savings.

So, if you followed this...you hopefully understand why shooting last is better, and WHY I like my main nub design to have a BM on it (aside from the obvious reasons). I know that I'm gonna pay for explaining this sometime in the future, but what the heck.

For those of you that didn't follow it, the point is that the 40 init missile boats are going to hit nothing but chaff the first turn (might as well not even fire), and your missile boats will kill unshielded beamers. Essentially "firing first by firing last", hitting something useful in round 1. That also means it is likely your chaff will be there the next round, and your opponet will be vapor. Very Happy

The rest of the peices come together nicely, once you start doing some math on #'s of ships vs quality of ships, and mineral stockpile usability.

All this takes situational awareness, too. You just can't throw these designs together and expect to beat everyone. You need to keep track of enemy designs, and check all your options, and make effective counters.

This goes both ways, too. In a team game, my team was losing. We were the ones with BB's ...

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