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Re: HE - usable?

Thu, 16 January 2003 17:21

zoid

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Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA

TheJorrus wrote on Thu, 16 January 2003 07:30

Half the pop yes but! Only Half the pop needed get maximum resources too!

I think you missed my point altogether. You're still assuming (like I always did) that an HE will produce twice as many colonists as any other PRT given the same growth rate if all other factors are equal, which isn't true.

<EXAMPLE>
HE: Growth rate = 10% (20% growth rate)
CA: Growth rate = 10% (We could use any other PRT for comparison purpose but we'll use CA because it is 10 points cheaper than an HE PRT)
No OBRM involved for either prt -
Habitat value of a planet for each race 100%, both planets at 25% population cap for max growth. That's 125,000 for the HE, and 250,000 for the CA.

HE growth per turn is 125,000(.2)=25,000
CA growth per turn is 250,000(.1)=25,000

There's no advantage there. Not for the HE anyways. If all other factory and mine settings are the same he's just producing half as much while maintaining the same growth rate. To change his economy, habitat, or any other settings to gain an advantage, the HE must give something else up, and the CA in question can do the exact same thing, get the same number of points to make exactly the same changes as an HE and gain the same outcome. No advantage for the HE, but disadvantage? You betcha!

Now let's assume that each of the aforementioned PRT's get the same number and quality of planets, and there is nowhere left to expand to, so both races just sit and allow their planets to grow. The CA ultimately will have twice the number of colonists, twice the factories and twice the mines, twice the resources and twice the minerals, and stargates too. At this point one wonders why the HE prt cost 10 points more and not several hundred points less. Because the metemorph hull and the flux capacitor are the only REAL nice things the HE gets, and that just isn't enough.

Quote:

Which by my math means is a cancelation ...Factories can be 50% better , 50% cheaper ,operate 250% more HE spend less rousources to maximise output! especialy if you dont count your pop as a resource ...

Better check that math again, my friend. I failed college algebra but this is pretty basic stuff. Nowhere does it say HE colonists are twice as productive as a basis. Perhaps the HE can achieve that by selling off his growth rate, but the CA can sell off just as much growth rate, get the same points, do the same thing with those points that the HE does, and still have the same growth rate as the HE. No advantage there for the HE.

Quote:

What more could you ask for ... ?

Well, how about a complete makeover for the HE prt? I've just proven that it's completely broken. I think there must have been either some last minute ill-considered disadvantage applied to the HE prt to "balance" the prt during the game developement, or perhaps the HE was defined before the growth calculations were. I don't know, but I'll never play HE again knowing what I know now.

Quote:

Another thing in the early turns (say 0-40) do you think most other viable races get an average growth of 10% galaxcy wide as a 5%growth tri-immune HE would?

Every PRT can do the same thing as the HE, with no more penalty. You're comparing apples to oranges. To be fair you can't modify one race to give it a certain advantage, modify another race to give it a completely different advantage, then complain that the second race doesn't have the advantages held by the first. As I said above, whatever advantage is gained by the HE selling his growth down to 5%, the CA can also do at the same cost, and his growth rate remains the same as the HE.

Quote:

Just an example 5% HE- 10+10+10+10+10+10+10...10 ~ 80%
is more than say a 16%non-HE- 16+3+6+8+2+4+7...11 ~ 57%
(And does the non-HE have this on close planets?)

Sorry, I have no idea what those calculations are meant to represent.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 January 2003 20:29]

I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused

Ummm, sure! Nod

I do FREESTYLE math.

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[Message index]

		HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Mon, 02 December 2002 13:43
		Re: HE - usable? By: EDog on Mon, 02 December 2002 23:16
		Re: HE - usable? By: BlueTurbit on Mon, 02 December 2002 23:54
		Re: HE - usable? By: Mangar on Tue, 03 December 2002 01:13
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Tue, 03 December 2002 07:01
		Re: HE - usable? By: Stalwart on Tue, 03 December 2002 15:00
		Re: HE - usable? By: EDog on Tue, 03 December 2002 21:14
		Re: HE - usable? By: BlueTurbit on Wed, 04 December 2002 00:34
		Re: HE - usable? By: TheJorrus on Wed, 04 December 2002 10:41
		Re: HE - usable? By: SimonM on Wed, 04 December 2002 17:43
		Re: HE - usable? By: johng316 on Fri, 27 December 2002 18:19
		Re: HE - usable? By: Hetzer on Tue, 03 December 2002 16:11
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Wed, 04 December 2002 13:40
		Re: HE - usable? By: Apelord on Wed, 04 December 2002 17:55
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Wed, 04 December 2002 20:15
		Re: HE - usable? By: Apelord on Wed, 04 December 2002 20:35
		Re: HE - usable? By: tech25 on Wed, 04 December 2002 21:10
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Wed, 04 December 2002 21:59
		Re: HE - usable? By: Apelord on Wed, 04 December 2002 22:33
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Wed, 04 December 2002 22:39
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Thu, 05 December 2002 02:36
		Re: HE - usable? By: FurFuznel on Thu, 05 December 2002 11:25
		Re: HE - usable? By: Apelord on Thu, 05 December 2002 12:59
		Re: HE - usable? By: Stalwart on Thu, 05 December 2002 13:58
		Re: HE - usable? By: Robert on Thu, 05 December 2002 14:14
		Re: HE - usable? By: Stalwart on Fri, 20 December 2002 15:54
		Re: HE - usable? By: TheJorrus on Mon, 13 January 2003 11:21
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Fri, 27 December 2002 21:08
		Re: HE - usable? By: EDog on Fri, 27 December 2002 22:40
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Fri, 27 December 2002 22:55
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Sat, 28 December 2002 09:56
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Sat, 28 December 2002 19:19
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Sun, 29 December 2002 16:27
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Sun, 29 December 2002 18:04
		Re: HE - usable? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 29 December 2002 19:44
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Sun, 29 December 2002 20:03
		Re: HE - usable? By: johng316 on Sun, 29 December 2002 19:40
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Thu, 16 January 2003 00:36
		Re: HE - usable? By: TheJorrus on Thu, 16 January 2003 10:30
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Thu, 16 January 2003 17:21
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Thu, 16 January 2003 23:56
		Re: HE - usable? By: Sotek on Fri, 17 January 2003 00:17
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Fri, 17 January 2003 00:40
		Re: HE - usable? By: TheJorrus on Sat, 18 January 2003 04:29
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Sat, 18 January 2003 04:41
		Re: HE - usable? By: Sotek on Sat, 18 January 2003 05:18
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Sat, 18 January 2003 14:51
		Re: HE - usable? By: Sotek on Sat, 18 January 2003 20:32
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Sat, 18 January 2003 21:43
		Re: HE - usable? By: Sotek on Sat, 18 January 2003 22:27
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Sun, 19 January 2003 00:59
		Re: HE - usable? By: ccmaster on Sat, 17 April 2004 12:42
		Re: HE - usable? By: multilis on Fri, 23 April 2004 14:48
		Re: HE - usable? By: Steve1 on Sat, 24 April 2004 14:17
		Re: HE - usable? By: Carn on Sat, 24 April 2004 14:34
		Re: HE - usable? By: Hetzer on Sat, 24 April 2004 21:33
		Re: HE - usable? By: mlaub on Sun, 25 April 2004 15:35
		Re: HE - usable? By: ccmaster on Sun, 25 April 2004 15:40
		Re: HE - usable? By: Carn on Sun, 25 April 2004 15:46
		Re: HE - usable? By: ccmaster on Sun, 25 April 2004 15:57
		Re: HE - usable? By: mlaub on Mon, 26 April 2004 11:14
		Re: HE - usable? By: ccmaster on Mon, 26 April 2004 15:44
		Re: HE - usable? By: mlaub on Mon, 26 April 2004 17:15
		Re: HE - usable? By: multilis on Mon, 26 April 2004 18:14
		Re: HE - usable? By: Crusader on Mon, 26 April 2004 18:25
		Re: HE - usable? By: ccmaster on Tue, 27 April 2004 09:24
		Re: HE - usable? By: mlaub on Tue, 27 April 2004 15:06
		Re: HE - usable? By: ccmaster on Wed, 28 April 2004 09:25
		Re: HE - usable? By: mlaub on Wed, 28 April 2004 10:15
		Re: HE - usable? By: Stalwart on Mon, 30 December 2002 00:10
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Mon, 30 December 2002 02:30
		Re: HE - usable? By: johng316 on Mon, 30 December 2002 17:12
		Re: HE - usable? By: Stalwart on Mon, 30 December 2002 23:05
		Re: HE - usable? By: ninja_squirrel on Tue, 31 December 2002 06:27
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Mon, 13 January 2003 14:13
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Mon, 13 January 2003 19:19
		Re: HE - usable? By: TheJorrus on Tue, 14 January 2003 10:24
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Tue, 14 January 2003 14:01
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Tue, 14 January 2003 19:47
		Re: HE - usable? By: freakyboy on Thu, 16 January 2003 10:36
		Re: HE - usable? By: TheJorrus on Thu, 16 January 2003 10:42
		Re: HE - usable? By: BackBlast on Mon, 24 February 2003 17:30
		Re: HE - usable? By: yucaf on Tue, 25 February 2003 13:37
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Tue, 25 February 2003 22:50
		Re: HE - usable? By: BackBlast on Wed, 26 February 2003 00:27
		Re: HE - usable? By: BlueTurbit on Wed, 26 February 2003 11:24
		Re: HE - usable? By: yucaf on Wed, 26 February 2003 23:43
		Re: HE - usable? By: Sotek on Sun, 19 January 2003 03:31
		Re: HE - usable? By: jeffimix on Sun, 19 January 2003 12:07
		Re: HE - usable? By: Apelord on Mon, 27 January 2003 11:56
		Re: HE - usable? By: zoid on Tue, 28 January 2003 03:24
		Re: HE - usable? By: gible on Wed, 29 January 2003 05:18
		Re: HE - usable? By: BlueTurbit on Wed, 05 February 2003 06:30
		Re: HE - usable? By: Steve1 on Wed, 10 September 2003 11:42
		Re: HE - usable? By: iztok on Wed, 13 December 2006 07:29
		Re: HE - usable? By: Carn on Thu, 01 March 2007 08:36
		Re: HE - usable? By: iztok on Thu, 01 March 2007 16:05
		Re: HE - usable? By: Carn on Fri, 02 March 2007 05:05

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