NAPs exits and actions when exiting NAPs |
Sat, 06 August 2011 16:42 |
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joseph | | Lt. Junior Grade | Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003 Location: Bristol | |
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I had an interesting in game message recently where a player cancelled our NAP and in the 5 year exist period I pinged one of his planets with an unarmed scout.
He said this was an attack and against the terms of the NAP and was genuinely put out by it - claiming I did it to get to know his ship designs. (I did it to make sure there were no hostile fleets so I would know where to gate my defensive fleets).
I do have pen scans but as you all know nothing beats actually being present to be sure you dont miss anything.
Anyway this got me thinking, what is exceptable behaviour when exiting a NAP?
I would
Set them to enemy (this would mean any ships that tried to orbit my planets would be killed)
Send scouts into their area
ping any planets I was worried would be a launching point for attacking me
Ping any planets I was considering attacking.
Sweep any minefields in my space.
Lay minefields in their spance
I would also probably
Sweep minefields protecting worlds I was planning on attacking
Kill sweepers that were actively clearing my minefields
Kill scouts in my area
Launch packets that would impact when the NAP was over
I wouldnt
Put my armed ships into orbit over his worlds
Kill his minelayers laying around his worlds
Kill large fleets of his
Kill transports
Bomb worlds
Packet worlds hiting before end of NAP
What do you lot do when NAPs are running down?
Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"Report message to a moderator
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Re: NAPs exits and actions when exiting NAPs |
Sun, 07 August 2011 01:25 |
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Eagle of Fire | | Lt. Commander | Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008 Location: GMT -5 | |
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My neighbors are not off to conquer the galaxy and kill me. And if it was the case and he would do that, I'd totally shotgun him before even asking what he's doing there...
... Your example really don't apply.
Edit: Note, however, that I would consider someone who still have an NAP with me and who ping me regularly as a sign of aggression. But in this case the NAP is already off and in the exit clauses. Completely justified as it is really not the same situation.
[Updated on: Sun, 07 August 2011 01:31]
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Re: NAPs exits and actions when exiting NAPs |
Sun, 07 August 2011 01:58 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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LOL It was an analogy. Hoping maybe the message sinks in. Not to be taken literally.
Consider this then: would sending a spy into another country be considered an act of aggression? I believe it is considered so universally. Neighbor, country, planet... the act is interpreted in similar fashion with respect to breaking the laws of home, country, planet. Trespassing, spying, without permission. Even more so if there is an agreement to not do that during the period of the agreement.
And unless agreed upon in advance, it's a violation of the terms, laws, etc.
And stop saying that notification of ending NAP, as per terms of agreement, ends the NAP, and it goes into an "exit" mode. It's a notice that it will END in x number of years. A span of years that was previously agreed upon. The NAP continues until it has ended in x number of years.
Just because you go into paranoid-schizo-panic mode when you are told your agreement is ending, doesn't mean you can now change the terms of the agreement and start doing things you didn't do before. If you do that, then you are the one breaking the contract, instead of doing the correct thing and waiting until the NAP actually is concluded. And there will be consequences.
[Updated on: Sun, 07 August 2011 01:59]
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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Re: NAPs exits and actions when exiting NAPs |
Mon, 08 August 2011 07:39 |
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iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1210
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
Joseph, don't bother with what your neighbour says. He'll always do what the wants. If he wants war, there's nothing you can do. If he wants "cassus belli", he'll get it. But until the NAP runs out you and him're still bound to its agreed "limitations".
What you do on YOUR side of the border is your bussines only. You have 5 years to get ready for an agression. Use them well.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Mon, 08 August 2011 07:43] Report message to a moderator
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Re: NAPs exits and actions when exiting NAPs |
Mon, 08 August 2011 21:17 |
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magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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Eagle of Fire wrote on Mon, 08 August 2011 19:11 |
Quote: | You don't get to claim that your NAP conditions are "more basic" when you're arguing for special rules in the exit period.
| I don't though. You are. When I have special rules to add to an NAP (which is 99% of the time) I have no problem stating them before hand with the player in question. But if it wasn't specifically stated? Why would it enter the NAP by default? It should not.
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Your proposal:
One set of rules for NAP
One set of rules for NAP exit period
One set of rules once NAP is over
My proposal:
One set of rules for NAP
One set of rules once NAP is over
You are the one arguing for a more complicated arrangement.
Quote: |
Quote: | You might as well say that as all players want to win, NAPs are a grave mistake.
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I'm not stupid enough to actually believe that most players are there only to look good and have a good time around a beer in the local world pub.
If you want to win, you have to attack. If you enter an NAP, it is usually a strategical maneuver to gain something. Time, trust, a safe front... Something. Make perfect sense in the term of a game to do that and then drop the hammer on the player in question when it is time.
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Like I said, if you don't want to adhere to an NAP and not take aggressive action until the exit is over "because it would be silly to not prepare", then by the same logic you shouldn't make an NAP in the first place, "because it would be silly to not prepare".
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Re: NAPs exits and actions when exiting NAPs |
Tue, 09 August 2011 00:44 |
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Void | | Ensign | Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011 Location: California, GMT -7 | |
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BlueTurbit wrote on Sat, 06 August 2011 22:58 | Consider this then: would sending a spy into another country be considered an act of aggression? I believe it is considered so universally.
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Aggression is a continuum, although if you have fully articulated what aggression means to you, then sure, you can say definitively whether someone has acted with aggression or not.
To your specific question, countries do this all the time, and don't make much of a fuss about it. Oh sure, every once in a while it'll be a big deal, but for 99% of the cases, it's merely a blip on the radar.
I would further contend that spying helps keep people out of wars. When countries don't have insight into what their enemies are doing, they think the worst. I'm sure some history buffs can think of one or two examples...
Cheers,
Void
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Re: NAPs exits and actions when exiting NAPs |
Tue, 09 August 2011 09:34 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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Quote: | Aggression is a continuum, although if you have fully articulated what aggression means to you, then sure, you can say definitively whether someone has acted with aggression or not.
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"Espionage or spying involves an individual obtaining information that is considered secret or confidential without the permission of the holder of the information."
Quote: | To your specific question, countries do this all the time, and don't make much of a fuss about it. Oh sure, every once in a while it'll be a big deal, but for 99% of the cases, it's merely a blip on the radar.
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"Nearly every society has very strict laws concerning espionage, and the penalty for being caught is often death."
Quote: | I would further contend that spying helps keep people out of wars. When countries don't have insight into what their enemies are doing, they think the worst. I'm sure some history buffs can think of one or two examples...
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"Espionage is usually part of an institutional effort by a government or corporation, and the term is most readily associated with state spying on potential or actual enemies primarily for military purposes."
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